Zen comment-60623 2011-11-25T20:00:50Z 2011-11-25T20:00:50Z Um both of you are full of it. It would take too much time to correct the inaccurate and uninformed rants of the xmaspast. I do mean rant...get some help please because you seem one ant short of a picnic. I'm just an observer and person who knows a person involved at MBA... but I know the BS when I read it. Zen 2011-11-25T20:00:50Z Zen comment-60565 2011-11-23T16:27:08Z 2011-11-23T16:27:08Z Not that I am in favor of a strong mayor system or a fan of KJ but he did have it in his campaign materials prior to taking office. I believe it was the fancy booklet he created which outlined his goals once in office. Just saying. Zen 2011-11-23T16:27:08Z Zen comment-59362 2011-11-01T00:13:38Z 2011-11-01T00:13:38Z Really? 1. Midtown has developed just fine. 2. Developing public land is not simple. CADA has transformed a broken neighborhood that was neglected before and during state ownership into a great neighborhood. 3. Portland developed in very special circumstances. You didn't see that happening anywhere else in the early part of the decade. Perfect Storm! 4. San Diego tried to replicate Portland and they ended up with over half of their condo developments sit empty and their City government in shambles. 5. Downtown would not look like Portland if CADA was not around. The neighborhood would look much worse than today. At the very best...parking lots and state office buildings. Zen 2011-11-01T00:13:38Z Zen comment-59016 2011-10-22T18:13:46Z 2011-10-22T18:13:46Z What are you talking about? Downtown/Midtown has great mix of bars and restaurants. They are not all "bro bars"... whatever that exactly means. It seems to me that places that survive or do well are the places that fit Sacramento's style not chic SF style. Shady Lady, R15, Centro, Monkey Bar, Zocalo's, Hot Italian, pick a sushi joint, Fox and Goose, 58 Degrees and Holding Company, Taps's, Press, Ella, Pronto's, Peazanos, Mix, De Vere's, Mulvaney's are just a few examples. Many of these places opened in the last decade. I would not call these Bro Bars but I would say most are sophisticated, "hip", and food destinations that are adding to the options for Sacramento. Don't judge the place before it opens. The Wongs and De Vere's seemed to know the market be doing well. Zen 2011-10-22T18:13:46Z Zen comment-57979 2011-09-28T17:17:01Z 2011-09-28T17:17:01Z Settle down Trapper. I read the article. I am commenting on more that what was written in this piece. My comment is more about my own knowledge of the project and people involved. CADA played a part in that project but it was not CADA that led or made final decisions on it. If you talked to Mr. Schmidt, I know he will tell you that the State made a lot of mistakes on that project and CADA played a different role than you are thinking albiet an important supporting role in developing the East End. Don't "READ" too much into that line. Instrumental can mean a lot things in such a big project. Zen 2011-09-28T17:17:01Z Zen comment-57954 2011-09-27T23:21:41Z 2011-09-27T23:21:41Z Except the City only sees only a portion of that $2.8 Million because the state take's the lion share of it. Zen 2011-09-27T23:21:41Z Zen comment-57953 2011-09-27T23:00:26Z 2011-09-27T23:00:26Z Thank the State not CADA. If memory serves right CADA had little to do with the final design or plan for that complex. Outside of terrible design, the East End did help bring thousands of State workers to that end of Midtown and help jump start the private investment in the area. Zen 2011-09-27T23:00:26Z Zen comment-55849 2011-08-24T23:58:40Z 2011-08-24T23:58:40Z Never thought of the Med Center as Oak Park's. Law School....Yes. Sac High...ok (hard to explain now since only a portion of the school is oak park kids) Even if you do consider it in the "neighborhood" its still there, the place didn't grow legs and move. Politically this is all about perspective. Look at the bright side Oak Park, if you have a problem with the Med Center you have a Councilmember that can go to bat for you now. The CM will not have to worry about how the Med Center feels since its not in District 5. Zen 2011-08-24T23:58:40Z Zen comment-53475 2011-07-18T06:00:49Z 2011-07-18T06:00:49Z Nice. I hope it sticks around. Zen 2011-07-18T06:00:49Z Zen comment-53474 2011-07-18T05:59:52Z 2011-07-18T05:59:52Z Example. "That means, if a city cannot afford the payments, it cannot afford its redevelopment agency. " I believe the $1.7 Billion \the State Office of Finance and Governor is using is from 2008. I am guessing they can't afford them regardless because tax assessments have gone down and down since then. The Gov is using unattainable numbers to start. Example 2:“It’s fair to say, then,” Detwiler said, “that the unearned half of revenue being captured by redevelopment agencies (from property value growth) should really belong to schools.” Since the state is obligated to make sure the school funding bucket is full, it is in effect subsidizing redevelopment agencies for the unearned portion of revenue." This section all assumes a line of thinking that the tax increment funding belongs to schools because rise in tax assessments may or may not be attributed to redevelopment, but that is skewed line of thinking. Tax increment financing is not created or based on the what and why the incremental increases occur. The point is to create a revenue stream for redevelopment activities regardless if redevelopment is the cause such tax increases. Assessment increases have to happen without much redevelopment activity in the beginning in order to collect enough funds to initiate projects or bond for more funds. Its a spin to state those funds should be for schools. Zen 2011-07-18T05:59:52Z Zen comment-53465 2011-07-17T00:15:39Z 2011-07-17T00:15:39Z There are some misleading statements in this article but generally a good piece. One thing though, wasn't the 1400 R Street project a private project? I think CADA helped pay for some infrastructure but they are not technically a redevelopment agency. Zen 2011-07-17T00:15:39Z Zen comment-42894 2010-12-30T16:20:47Z 2010-12-30T16:20:47Z Um what about West Sacramento's Triangle area, R Street, 16th Street (CADA), affordable housing projects.... 7 and H and the Alkali Flat Transit Station Housing? Zen 2010-12-30T16:20:47Z Zen comment-38222 2010-10-02T00:15:19Z 2010-10-02T00:15:19Z Hey as long as Old Soul can crank out coffee and Latte's as fast as 'Bucks and Pete's then why not? Zen 2010-10-02T00:15:19Z Zen comment-38221 2010-10-02T00:10:50Z 2010-10-02T00:10:50Z I agree Richard but the problem is that movement still needs to happen. Its been two years but the message still hasn't been heard apparently. The National Energy Bill is stalled and we have propositions to set back CA's Climate law while China is running away from us. No economic development plan to bring green capital, innovation, and manufacturing to Sacramento or CA for that matter has hot been created. The only thing we got going for us that China doesn't is the fact we still are more creative as a country than China. Zen 2010-10-02T00:10:50Z Zen comment-38220 2010-10-02T00:04:21Z 2010-10-02T00:04:21Z Most of the comments cogmeyer makes is essentially the highlighted lessons/warnings Friedman gave. My guess is most of the posters here didn't attend the talk? Zen 2010-10-02T00:04:21Z Zen comment-37338 2010-09-17T18:32:34Z 2010-09-17T18:32:34Z Bill, Marion, Lisa, people have always been in Midtown. I would argue that the area became safer and a place to be once businesses did come back. Mr. Burgua check the conversation regarding Bloc series. I commented on your status of representing the neighbors and events at parks, not how they promoted the event. Street parties are in Midtown because the urban design aspects make for a better atmosphere and the popular businesses that create some of these events reside in Midtown. Additionally there are plenty of large events/street closures, with alcohol or not, the happen all over the central city not just in Midtown. William you posted a blog that just started in August and has not been updated since August 19th. The blog posts that exist on the MBA site promote Midtown Cocktail Week an event with a mission as stated: To host a community-wide celebration of Midtown Sacramento's diverse mixology community; a week of both celebration and education of responsible cocktail culture. Check the MBA Front page or the Explore Midtown Facebook page which is more active. Or Midtown monthly? I see a number of different ads promoting the many different aspects of Midtown neighborhood’s culture. A rundown the FB page posts: Midtown Bazaar, Weekend in Midtown events, Mex 200 at Zocalo (street party), Sidewalk Sale, Discussion on Midtown Monthly on the SS tragedy, Fall MBA Mixer, A call for artists, Midtown Halloween Trick or Treat. It looks like to me the MBA is trying to promote more than just the night life economy. I even see they are promoting the SOCA tour. And no I am not Mr. Kerridge. You really think he would have the time to go back and forth with you folks on SacPress? Zen 2010-09-17T18:32:34Z Zen comment-37307 2010-09-17T18:25:55Z 2010-09-17T18:25:55Z Once again it was not just the "residents" who helped make Midtown great. Stop trying to take all the credit. I don't see all 20,000 people are crossing the moat to Midtown at the same time nor are drunk, aimless people wandering the streets in search of a drink. Its not a massive crowd arriving at 9 PM its a change of crowds. Between 9 and 11, the art walk / second Saturday festival crowd leaves and yes a crowd of partiers show up. That crowd is smaller than the previous crowd. I don't think everyone knows that its the secondary crowd that is a problem. In Fact many people I talk too don't like the large amounts of people period. Its too crowded. Throw in a large group of teenagers and people have a problem with the event before they even get to 9 PM. Please direct us to examples of the "Marketing of Midtown" as one big bar. I must miss those ads. I see plenty of businesses individually trying to attract nightlife folks but nothing that says yes come the Midtown its one giant bar. Pleas try and use some paragraphs. Zen 2010-09-17T18:25:55Z Zen comment-37199 2010-09-16T16:39:51Z 2010-09-16T16:39:51Z I think Parrhesiac brings up a good point in relation to your article Marion. Sometimes commenting on issues left out are just as important then what was in the writing. You certainly have done the same as others have in posts on SacPress. Same can be said about tone. As for Gang violence, It is a problem and that this tragedy could have happen anywhere. Gang related deaths occurs too often in certain neighborhoods without the strong reaction it received over this Second Saturday act. ' With that said, the reason this act of violence occurred does have a correlation to Second Saturday. The Event's reputation as a place to hang out, art watch, people watch, and enjoy what Midtown businesses have to offer attracted these negative people who committed the violence. No question. However, this is is not the first death or act of violence in Midtown either related to the nightlife or not related, but because it occurred on a Second Saturday and issues surrounding the event were already building steam through the summer, it created a strong media and community reaction. I just hope we can learn and grow together as community from this event as your article entails. Zen 2010-09-16T16:39:51Z Zen comment-33986 2010-07-31T15:35:11Z 2010-07-31T15:35:11Z The one thing left out about the streetcar talk in the media is who will pay for it. This study was not the result of a disagreement on the route as much as the problem of who pays. In the original route the City of Sacramento and properties around that route paid the lion's share of the cost while the economic development potential really was on the West Sac side of the line. Land owners balked and now we are studying the route options and the path of least resistance for a financing plan. I like the route for the the most part you suggest except the stop a the 19th and Q Site. You might as well wait to get to the 16th Street Station where the ped routes and destinations are better situated. The other problem is many people feel that going up Capitol Mall does not do the area justice visually with wires strung across the street. Zen 2010-07-31T15:35:11Z Zen comment-26079 2010-05-02T22:27:44Z 2010-05-02T22:27:44Z I like the new logo. Maybe your the one that is out of tune with the vast majority of your neighbors? And why write a piece like this without at least engaging the MBA? It sounds like you have know idea about how they came up with the logo and the slogan. It also seems like you have no intentions of trying to find middle ground with these folks. You just sound bitter. Zen 2010-05-02T22:27:44Z Zen comment-25745 2010-04-27T18:12:02Z 2010-04-27T18:12:02Z Ummm....Cars are not planned to go on the 700 Block. Zen 2010-04-27T18:12:02Z Zen comment-23214 2010-03-12T04:22:08Z 2010-03-12T04:22:08Z Sorry to say but this report doesn't mean anything yet. If this is forward then it's an inch in a mile. Until the CIty, Kings, NBA, and state get involved its nothing be proud of yet. Until the financing for the arena is worked out and that financing plan fits the King's business model and the Railyards plans its just an idea. Zen 2010-03-12T04:22:08Z Zen comment-22435 2010-02-19T21:51:41Z 2010-02-19T21:51:41Z I agree about KJ but in cahoots with Kerridge is wrong. Zen 2010-02-19T21:51:41Z Zen comment-22419 2010-02-19T07:01:18Z 2010-02-19T07:01:18Z Wrong. Zen 2010-02-19T07:01:18Z Zen comment-21973 2010-02-10T20:55:21Z 2010-02-10T20:55:21Z Not a fan of the SMI that was shot down by the courts but he did mention it as an objective during his campaign. Page 8 of his mailing. Zen 2010-02-10T20:55:21Z Zen comment-18913 2009-12-08T06:14:22Z 2009-12-08T06:14:22Z What? Zen 2009-12-08T06:14:22Z Zen comment-17987 2009-11-19T18:00:36Z 2009-11-19T18:00:36Z Bill. I too question the numbers of residents indicated in the article. I wonder what boundaries they are referencing. The connection to the 18,000 and the SRO units and market rate units don't add up. Considering the entire Central City has around 35,000 people. I don't think, based on the quote, that the consultant recommended mall type, nationally branded retail but rather new up and coming retailers and start ups. Many other now flurishing areas around the country took the same approach and over the years and have done well. Old Pasedena and Pearl District come to mind. I think the 12 percent of retainable retail businesses is low,but the point is that very few of the current retailers fit the vision that the larger community wants for the Downtown core. Just because they are independent does not mean that they are desirable places to shop or dine. I do agree that if Sacramento wants to put people in downtown after hours and make it a destination it is going to take a major facelift of the properties and streetscape to do so. Bill, I know you believe that a building's function and use matter more but the skin matters just as much. Any market study will show that if you want to be a destination and draw regional shopper that attract many market segments, the place needs to be aesthetically pleasing. I am not saying that the buildings use is less of a factor rather that architecture and good urban design is just as important. Downtown does not even come close in generating a positive perception for use or form. I did not get the perspective that the recommendations lead to demolition of old buildings to build skyscrapers. Don't worry Bill, once the railyards really kicks off , the ability to recruit retailers to JKL will make it hard to get anything in the core. Downtown plaza will fully fail, K Street will not look any better, and the DSP, City, and community will start another plan for this area. We just come to the realization that K Street is a business district and move efforts to areas like J Street, L Street, and the River. That's my two cents. Oh I don't believe CADA has any units in the JKL area. Zen 2009-11-19T18:00:36Z Zen comment-17874 2009-11-17T17:27:28Z 2009-11-17T17:27:28Z bbbbmer. You are correct that Eleni is/was a partner on that project but its not AKT. Zen 2009-11-17T17:27:28Z Zen comment-17263 2009-11-05T01:17:37Z 2009-11-05T01:17:37Z Bill again great points. Jumping off on some of them. I would like to point out that many of the percieved parking problems in Midtown are not only related to new commercial development but of some of the residential projects over the past 30 to 40 years that you mentioned. Many residential projects throughout Midtown were built with little or no off street parking. When the historic structures, that you mention, are subdivided into more units they are done mostly with no off street parking. Jeremy...keep up the good work. Most people don't understand the risk involved in making development projects happen and make vast generalizations about developers. As you can tell I am with Bill on this...some developers are better than others at engaging the community to work things out. Zen 2009-11-05T01:17:37Z Zen comment-17262 2009-11-05T01:06:58Z 2009-11-05T01:06:58Z Marion, I understand you are a resident that lives at the 18th and L location but do you really need that much disclosure for an article about the concept and first projects? Does in matter? I don't see that it does. As long as the project can find at least 1 space per unit that is what matters at the end of the day. If that remains the standard then why pound the point of how it got there over and over and over again? Zen 2009-11-05T01:06:58Z Zen comment-17261 2009-11-05T01:02:34Z 2009-11-05T01:02:34Z Bill great response. Comps in the Midtown area for residential are about $30 to $40 a SF. So Jim you are way off. In reference to Ron V's architecture, I really disagree with you Jim. The one thing that Ron has show over the years is his ability of his firm to design a number of architectural styles including a number smaller projects in Midtown that you most likely do not know. I like this concept overall. Its an great alternative way to get the density up in the Central City without needing large lots and large developments. Zen 2009-11-05T01:02:34Z Zen comment-16159 2009-10-23T17:09:00Z 2009-10-23T17:09:00Z Marion I disagree about the Bee. I thought they covered the Johnson's troubles very well and especially dived head deep into the investigations of St. Hope and Phoenix. If you look at some of KJ's folks that post they would say the Bee was out to get KJ. I believe that the blog post was his way of trying to address his issues with the Bee. I do agree that the Bee during his campaign could have pointed out his total lack of qualifications and understanding of local politics, procedure, and current business practices of the City. Zen 2009-10-23T17:09:00Z Zen comment-16111 2009-10-22T21:25:08Z 2009-10-22T21:25:08Z I believe the City also owns the parking underneath the plaza so that is also a piece of leverage. Zen 2009-10-22T21:25:08Z Zen comment-15970 2009-10-21T21:37:16Z 2009-10-21T21:37:16Z I thought that Cohn made that remark. If she did make it the reason was bad but so was the project. For the most part she supported well designed high density projects in downtown. But back to my point is that she supported and voted for many projects downtown including Fulcrum and Loftworks. Zen 2009-10-21T21:37:16Z Zen comment-15971 2009-10-21T21:34:33Z 2009-10-21T21:34:33Z Yet there were 8 other council seats that were making decisions too. The City manager also recommended and made development agreements locking in the type of development that could be built there in the late 1990's. When project approvals were made and permits issued during the early 2000's the council tied there hands. I don't like what happened in N. Natomas either but the blame for it falls mostly with the City manager at the time followed by the entire Council in the Mid 1980's to the early 2000's. The N. Natomas Community plan was well intended but the excection of it was poor. Zen 2009-10-21T21:34:33Z Zen comment-15959 2009-10-21T17:15:07Z 2009-10-21T17:15:07Z Mayor Fargo actually supported Loftworks and Fulcrum projects when they were proposed. I believe the Council voted unanimously to give the Elliot Building $3 Million to construct earthquake retrofits. Zen 2009-10-21T17:15:07Z Zen comment-15957 2009-10-21T17:09:40Z 2009-10-21T17:09:40Z N. Natomas's issues of flood control, development, and even the issue of whether it should be developed at all should not be blamed on Fargo alone. N. Natomas's history predates her influences in local politics. Zen 2009-10-21T17:09:40Z Zen comment-15577 2009-10-15T00:08:40Z 2009-10-15T00:08:40Z Good points Bill, but I am still interested in Trapper's question: Where are the facts? I know that many of the higher end apartments are still being rented at a good rate. Granted many places have lowered there price, but so have all apartment units. In comparison to the amount of rental units in the Central City, the high end market makes up a small percentage. Zen 2009-10-15T00:08:40Z Zen comment-14720 2009-09-30T19:14:12Z 2009-09-30T19:14:12Z Anthony. I disagree about arenas being self-contained in their financial impact. Many arenas and stadiums built in downtowns or other urban settings have a positive impact on surrounding businesses. Restaurants especially benefit from diners going out to eat before the games. Whether or not the impact is great enough to off set the public subsidy needed is another issue that economists can make a case. I can tell you the impact to the businesses around an urban arena is a good one and the visual impact of thousands of venue visitors sells downtown to investors and businesses. Zen 2009-09-30T19:14:12Z Zen comment-14696 2009-09-30T05:43:46Z 2009-09-30T05:43:46Z The mural was done by artist Stephanie Taylor and 1996 according to her website. I would be interested to know why its coming down as well. Zen 2009-09-30T05:43:46Z Zen comment-14384 2009-09-25T06:06:05Z 2009-09-25T06:06:05Z The sky is falling! The sky is falling! Interesting. I would like to see the statistics and see its comparison to areas based on population and commercial square footage. The MBA as an association had nothing to do with individual land and business owners choosing to locate in Midtown. Anytime you have a popular area it has the possibility of attracting the wrong elements or have incidents. I would not say we are backsliding. You imply that we are headed to "slum"like conditions. I think nobody wants that. Its bad for business and for residents. Zen 2009-09-25T06:06:05Z Zen comment-14320 2009-09-25T00:06:51Z 2009-09-25T00:06:51Z An identity is different from disclosure. Writing an article/blog and commenting are also different. Zen 2009-09-25T00:06:51Z Zen comment-14280 2009-09-24T18:07:06Z 2009-09-24T18:07:06Z Marion. Do you live off the Alley in which Old Soul is located? I think some disclosure would be nice. Zen 2009-09-24T18:07:06Z Zen comment-13709 2009-09-13T01:28:34Z 2009-09-13T01:28:34Z Livable?! That depends on what your definition. It is obviously different than mine. Centro is not even close to a nightclub. Been to one lately? Live in a residential suburb or even a streetcar suburb and you will find the same landscaping noise in the morning by neighbors. Centro is at least 160 Feet from the nearest residential unit. That's half a block. The nighttime noise ok I get it. Lived there. I new living on J Street to expect it and dealt with it. I get fired up reading and listening to a few folks that seem less interested in talking things out with some reason and truth. The businesses are part of the neighborhood too. By the way its 10:00 PM to 7:00 AM in the ordinance not 7:30 AM. Centro is not the problem from my observation. It's two other establishments on the bloc. Zen 2009-09-13T01:28:34Z Zen comment-13704 2009-09-12T23:27:47Z 2009-09-12T23:27:47Z You or the neighborhood. Did you take a poll? Other questions.... Is it a problem because it was Centro and you have problem with them? Is it illegal when my neighbor fires up a lawnmower at the same time? Is it illegal when my other neighbor's landscape service starts his blower up at 7:30 AM or when I start mine? There is a lot of real estate between Centro and the residents in the area. Was the noise that bad? Did you have all the windows in your home open? Could you just close your windows? Get over it and have a Margarita at Centro tonight. Zen 2009-09-12T23:27:47Z Zen comment-12320 2009-08-19T22:21:36Z 2009-08-19T22:21:36Z They cannot use redevelopment funds for general education funding. I write this respectfully....you should really educate yourself on how our city goverment works before calling people idiots. Zen 2009-08-19T22:21:36Z Zen comment-12209 2009-08-17T00:41:48Z 2009-08-17T00:41:48Z This is no suburb and I think the City has treated not like a suburb nor like what it is....a business district. Part of the success of Ella, Temple and the Citizen is that both have ped and auto traffic. A visible front door for automobiles. I actually have been to all those Cities and places mentioned. There are numerous and big differences from them and K Street t. Here is a question; name a pedestrian mall in a US city that has two tracks of rail transit down the middle of the street and no vehicular traffic that has succeeded? Zen 2009-08-17T00:41:48Z Zen comment-12210 2009-08-17T00:32:28Z 2009-08-17T00:32:28Z Point of clarification. Streetscapes include the buildings and its relation to the public areas like sidewalks and the street. This goes to my comments about the market on K Street. The people do not feel comfortable in the downtown streetscape. It does not relate to a walkable, enjoyable experience. I agree part of this uneasy feeling is the lack of good ground floor uses that are not typical of suburban shopping destinations. I totally agree with that notion but not by itself. It is both the public and private realms of the street that need improvement. It needs to be done in tandem. Zen 2009-08-17T00:32:28Z Zen comment-12181 2009-08-15T18:39:11Z 2009-08-15T18:39:11Z I beg to differ about foot traffic. If given the choice of foot traffic vs vehicular traffic most retailers will pick the cars. Now I am not saying it should be on or the other. They need both. K Street brings foot traffic 40 hours a week but its not good enough as your wrote. It needs more traffic day and night. My point is perception rules the day and if people cannot see store fronts from the predominant form of traffic it makes if extremely difficult to attract retail uses and keep them. Ask a retail broker and they will tell you the same thing. I would love to have K Street remain a ped. and transit mall with bikes added to the mix, but it K Street needs all modes to succeed. A healthy anchor on the West end would help too. Zen 2009-08-15T18:39:11Z Zen comment-12144 2009-08-15T01:34:29Z 2009-08-15T01:34:29Z The problem is businesses have a hard time believing that folks will support them without at least traffic moving by their store front. I don't think there is even close to 100 parking space that could be accommodated on a K Street if it was opened to cars without sacrificing the sidewalk areas. Could the City spend more time on J and L then K Street? At least they already have traffic. Some the urban form and buildings on those streets need just as much help. Zen 2009-08-15T01:34:29Z Zen comment-11590 2009-08-06T05:16:19Z 2009-08-06T05:16:19Z Steve the Strong Mayor is not a "modern" form of government. Its just different. Strong mayor has many versions as you know. Both forms of local government have its strengths and weaknesses. I like a strong mayor system but I don't like how the current "weak" mayor is presenting his proposal nor the proposal itself. Zen 2009-08-06T05:16:19Z Zen comment-11589 2009-08-06T05:11:49Z 2009-08-06T05:11:49Z His name should not matter. His questions and concerns should. Some people have good reasons for having screen names. Zen 2009-08-06T05:11:49Z Zen comment-11588 2009-08-06T04:40:44Z 2009-08-06T04:40:44Z Steve, none of the mayors you mention have the extended powers that the strong mayor would have under the Johnson proposal. Zen 2009-08-06T04:40:44Z Zen comment-11392 2009-07-31T19:41:10Z 2009-07-31T19:41:10Z The Mayor's proposal has few friends on Council and among the commenters here because it goes to far in reforming City Hall into a Strong Mayor System. I am favor of Strong Mayor system but not in the form proposed by Mayor Johnson and his backers. I think the approach City Council took was appropriate. I am sure that Mayor Johnson is monitoring that proposal. The public in petitioning process rarely gets the fine details of a proposal or explanations of the consequenses. I can invision many people signing the petition because of knee jerk reactions to government with or without an educated reason. One thing I would like to see if a City Council's or the Mayor's proposal is approved. The first mayor under a new strong mayor system should be elected into that specific position. Also if it passes a transition period should be in the proposal to deal with the current government system. Zen 2009-07-31T19:41:10Z Zen comment-10685 2009-07-14T06:17:53Z 2009-07-14T06:17:53Z William: Mr. Burgua stated that "the central business district is the appropriate location for these these types of events." Combined with his other comments and "articles" I think my comments were spot on. If you question my assumption on the variables that make 2nd Saturday in Midtown successful, then I would be interested in your assumptions on the subject. I would also question your comparison of the housing in Midtown to that of the Central Business District. There are many stark differences in housing proximity, density, and design. There are huge differences in support uses, urban design, and appeal. I didn't write only that it was the people in the housing but its also environment and proximity to housing that helped Second Saturday grow in Midtown. I lived on J Street and few other places and can tell you before Second Saturday became the event it is last April, a good portion of the people wandering through Midtown were residents of the area. And its not just the people living in the housing that made second saturday, its the fact that there is housing that is visible and at the right scale. The mix of uses is a major piece too. I will admit housing is not the only factor but its a major factor that makes Midtown the center of Second Saturday. Not the CBD or North Sac. With that said I have no problems with this idea. I hope I am wrong in "assuming" people are drawn to the environmental factors I mentioned above and avoid places like the CBD. I hope people go to this event . I hope it works and hope it catches on. Zen 2009-07-14T06:17:53Z Zen comment-10681 2009-07-14T05:25:11Z 2009-07-14T05:25:11Z I thought 2nd Saturday started in Downtown. Zen 2009-07-14T05:25:11Z Zen comment-10646 2009-07-13T21:21:57Z 2009-07-13T21:21:57Z I understand all the points you make however if that was the case you would have Second Saturday and other events happen regularly in Downtown. Its not the case. The reasons 2ndSat grew so big is the walkable neighborhood environment and housing that is nearby. Not 10 to 15 Blocks but 2 to 5. It maybe insignificant to some but its a difference none less. Take for instance the planner term Transit Oriented Developoment. The measure for planners at which people find as an acceptable walking distance from point of origin (transit or home) is a quarter mile which is around 4 Sacramento City Blocks. My Midtown experience both in the heart and near the Downtown/Midtown border is people gathered at homes near JKL and made out to the Second Saturday events. Until Downtown has MORE housing it will be hard to have events that will have the same impact as Second Saturday. My point is that Midtown can have festivals. It is an appropriate area to have them. I have nothing agains Downtown. I hope one day soon it can turn around in its appearance and attractivness outside of M-F 9-5. Mr. Burgua's comments seemed to suggest that Downtown was better suited for festivals of a larger scale because there were no people/homes in that area. It was therefore better to push these events to Downtown. Zen 2009-07-13T21:21:57Z Zen comment-10607 2009-07-13T15:18:36Z 2009-07-13T15:18:36Z Disagree once again. "These" types of events can be held in other places then the CBD and be appropriate. It seems to me a case by case, neighborhood by neighborhood. Fremont Park seems to have not problems hosting and wanting events while other parts of the Downtown want less and less. Why? Midtown has great location and is nearby housing where people in the neighborhood can walk and bike to the events. The Downtown has hardly any people or the charm that Midtown does. Zen 2009-07-13T15:18:36Z Zen comment-10277 2009-07-04T20:14:07Z 2009-07-04T20:14:07Z I think some of the problem is that both sides are holding a stubborn line. Businesses want to host events with having to have a sign off from residents every time. Residents want notice and controls over how certain events are run. In my experience the City permit system is onerous and at the same too lucid. The City, Businesses, residents, and promoters need to get together agree on a checklist for events at parks in the Central City. William thanks for the information on how neighborhood organizations work. I am well aware of how they do and should work. The problem from view lately is the inaccurate information and points of view of the recent events at Marshall Park. My own investigation of what occurred is not the same as some of the reporting on this website. Talking with businesses, residents, attendees, police and with my own eyes is that things were not spinning "out of control". The misinformation to the public creates unnecessary feelings of mistrust and animosity between the neighborhood "leaders" and businesses/promoters. Hopefully these issues are not be repeated because there is better dialogue and communication not anger, misinformation, and stomping all the way to City Hall. Everyone needs to let the past be past and move into the future. The Central City as we know is growing up. Its diverse. Its attractive once again. Its becoming something very hip and special. But there are some stakeholder collaboration to make it all work. Businesses want to bring more people here. Area residents and folks who want to visit, want more things to do. Some area residents near popular areas want quiet and minimal impacts to their homes. So get together. Peacefully. Honestly. Bring no previous feelings or other perceptions and plan the future. Do it outside the normal venues. Do it with an outside third party to facilitate. But each side needs to give a little, because the people who want the type of events that seem to get folks into the red, are needed, wanted, and going to happen. Zen 2009-07-04T20:14:07Z Zen comment-10276 2009-07-04T19:29:06Z 2009-07-04T19:29:06Z Sorry Dale I was not around then. Great to know that evens happened then, but its strange how now its the residents are the obstacles. Why does every event need the sign off of the residents from happening. I think its particular events that folks have a problem with. Zen 2009-07-04T19:29:06Z Zen comment-10230 2009-07-03T17:39:46Z 2009-07-03T17:39:46Z I agree with you points. Clarification. Do you mean more neighborhood-resident sponsored events? Are businesses not part of the community? Maybe something better can develop out of this...a partnership for that park. An event planning group that can plan activities for the park similar to the Friends of Fremont Park. Businesses and neighbors that can work together to get more out of that park. (Side note: I don't remember much happening at that park before all this happened which is a shame) Plan events for the night/music crowd and other events that are broader in music and content. Zen 2009-07-03T17:39:46Z Zen comment-10229 2009-07-03T17:31:54Z 2009-07-03T17:31:54Z Bill the problem is that the MSNEPNA, from my view, does not represent the majority of the neighbors in that area. If these events were so out of control why are where are all the 100 plus residents around the park voicing there displeasure? From my view I only see a small number of folks submitting complaints. The other problem is that your prior article about this event in many ways was not factually correct. Isn't there some source checking for folks that submit articles on SacPress? Zen 2009-07-03T17:31:54Z Zen comment-10216 2009-07-03T03:36:59Z 2009-07-03T03:36:59Z Bill is assuming he represents all the neighbors. Zen 2009-07-03T03:36:59Z Zen comment-9572 2009-06-17T20:03:49Z 2009-06-17T20:03:49Z Related to your last comment. I am sure your were respectful of your neighbors but that doesn't mean you controlled the actions of those that frequented your establishment. Here is a question: Is it the neighbors who frequent the bars walking home or people who park nearby? Should the issue be about location of bars or parking restrictions? Most of the larger issues regarding nightlife issues (not counting Second Saturdays) seem to be at the 2700 block of J Street. I don't hear the same issues at 18th and Cap or 20th and J/K or 21st and P. Is it location, concentration, or lack or home owners that make these areas better suited for nightlife venues? Zen 2009-06-17T20:03:49Z Zen comment-9546 2009-06-16T21:53:12Z 2009-06-16T21:53:12Z William, I don't know if bar and resturant owners care know what is mixed-use. What they do know is that when you have a critical mass of something it tends to be successful. At the block there are a number of nightlife venues because that number of businesses attracts a crowd. That spot in Midtown is a magnet for folks who want to enjoy the nightlife. The one thing I have learned living in this area is that it doesn't matter how many of the venues are at the 2700 Block, the folks around them will complain about somthing that happens. Rightly so. They have a right too be upset when someone pukes on their lawn. I don't think that is every going to change unless there are no venues. But I dread that scenario. The other uses at that location were failures because no critical mass and compettion from other markets. I know having lived nearby that its great to be able to walk to Harlow's or Centro. I am more concerned about the overall commercial health of Midtown. I do think that as a community that we have reached a critical mass with these types of venues. Besides its boring. We need new retail concepts. We need more variety. It would not hurt ,in my view, to see a more non-mall, national/regional tenants. It would also be nice to see some harmony between those living near commercial areas and the business owners so they can work together to see more amenities like trash cans, street lights, better sidewalks, benches, sidewalks, and other related programs for the area. Sorry for the streaming thoughts. Here is hope to a better dialogue. Zen 2009-06-16T21:53:12Z Zen comment-9542 2009-06-16T21:30:20Z 2009-06-16T21:30:20Z I don't think a special event permit is required for somthing on private property unless there is amplified sound that is more than what is allowed. Zen 2009-06-16T21:30:20Z Zen comment-9385 2009-06-12T16:43:10Z 2009-06-12T16:43:10Z What building are your referring to on 10th and K? What do you mean the City's Architecture Department's Building? Do you mean it was reviewed by the City? Zen 2009-06-12T16:43:10Z Zen comment-8637 2009-06-01T15:56:49Z 2009-06-01T15:56:49Z The Unites States has few Pedestrian Malls that are successful. Event Portland's Ped /transit street that is closed to vehicular traffic is seen as a failure. Denver has the most successful one that I know. I think cars on K Street creates a more psychological impact than anything. It allows visitors driving to K Street to find their destination without getting out of their vehicle and gives more activity to an area. I am not a car lover but I do recognize that most people are attached to vehicles as security, whether in the car or having cars pass by them. Vehicles on K Street is just one item that would solve K Street. Its a combination of things: vehicle traffic, more residents and housing (ownership) in downtown, more theaters/art/museaums, and more hotels, Zen 2009-06-01T15:56:49Z Zen comment-8486 2009-05-28T20:56:47Z 2009-05-28T20:56:47Z Fremont Park has one that is close to what you describe. I think the reason we don't see these fountains has something to do with the County Health Department or requirements for maintenance. The public fountains like that are diffucult to maintain. By the way I don't think David Taylor has much interest in this part of town. Paragary has Centro and Blue Cue across the street. Zen 2009-05-28T20:56:47Z Zen comment-7891 2009-05-19T23:54:55Z 2009-05-19T23:54:55Z One person's noise is another persons good time. Event organizers and the City should follow a preceeder to let folks know about large events months before they happen and follow good neighbor policies like monitor sound levels, parking, trash, and behavior. I am all for a good time but also recognize that events that are popular can impact those nearby. I hope everyone can settle this issue. I would love to see more festivals or current ones continue. I don't mean just music and beer oriented festivals but other ones for kid's, artists, and whatever you can dream. Our parks don't get used enough in the Central CIty. Zen 2009-05-19T23:54:55Z Zen comment-7790 2009-05-18T17:07:57Z 2009-05-18T17:07:57Z I don't think you can blame the spend spend spend mentality on the City or the State's current situation. The City reacted to the rapid growth of the private industry by hiring people, creating new programs, and providing services the public wanted. Now that the taxes are not flowing, these same services are now retracting appropriately. The City knew the good times would not last forever but they didn't know it would be this bad. The CIty had a rainy day fund but it was not nearly enought to satisfy the depth of the current economic turmoil. Yes you can save the money but at what cost to the services the public demands. I have a feeling that if the government did have a fat savings fund people would still complain because the see their tax money just sitting there. Zen 2009-05-18T17:07:57Z Zen comment-7789 2009-05-18T16:42:06Z 2009-05-18T16:42:06Z I believe this property was purchased with grant funds from the state last year. I am all for investing in the community and creating jobs. It's not like all of the funds for this project are comming from the City General Fund. These are federal funds so let's use them. These current EPA funds to test and clean the site will take time to complete. Who knows where the economy will be then and what federal funding the City will secure by then. The maintenance of the park is a worry though. The reality is the park will not be built in quite some time. The City can at least prepare the site for a time when there is construction and maintenance funds. Zen 2009-05-18T16:42:06Z Zen comment-7632 2009-05-14T17:48:12Z 2009-05-14T17:48:12Z Don't forget Uncle Vito's. All you can eat with a soda for 7 bucks. Zen 2009-05-14T17:48:12Z Zen comment-7331 2009-05-07T20:06:21Z 2009-05-07T20:06:21Z That and the original MOU asked the consultants to create a financing plan that did not involve federal funds. The reason being the City did not want the streetcar project competing with current and future RT projects for federal funds. Also, streetcar funding is extremely competitive at the federal level. There are over 30 new starts streetcar projects in the Unities States right now. Zen 2009-05-07T20:06:21Z Zen comment-7330 2009-05-07T20:01:41Z 2009-05-07T20:01:41Z FYI. The Central City actually has around 34,000 people per the City's housing element. I don't think the scenario of demolishing old homes all over Midtown to make way for mid rise buildings will happen. This may happen more so on commercial properties and on the outskirts of the Midtown. I don't believe the 19th and Q Street property acually has changed hands and Mr. Cemo still owns it. His health declined after he bought it and is now looking to unload it. I totally agree about the key to making K Street successful. Its all about housing. Housing on K Street. Housing around K Street. You cannot depend on the Burbs to support K Street. The perception of K Street at night is and will be too hard to fight until there are more people from a mix of incomes living closer to K Street. Zen 2009-05-07T20:01:41Z Zen comment-6904 2009-04-29T20:20:53Z 2009-04-29T20:20:53Z You failed to mention the Vallejo's Street party at 11th and O Streets. Zen 2009-04-29T20:20:53Z Zen comment-6158 2009-04-14T22:44:56Z 2009-04-14T22:44:56Z Dale whether you like it or not that is the perception and reputation you carry around town when you consistantly oppose projects and especially those that provide alcohol. When you make public comments about where restaurants and nightclubs should be, instead of Midtown, you create a reputation based on that. I apologize but I need to keep my identity private due to my line of work. We can still have dialogue regardless of who I am. It comes down to this: I totally disagree with your opinions on the matters of Midtown. Zen 2009-04-14T22:44:56Z Zen comment-6034 2009-04-13T16:36:07Z 2009-04-13T16:36:07Z Dale just wants nightclubs and bars/restraurants out of Midtown. Anyone who knows Dale, or of him, knows that. The percentage of subsidy in the project is crazy for what the public gets back, but this issue is dead. Let them build it. If it succeeds great. If it fails I hope the CIty and Taylor learned a lesson. I do hope the economy recovers enough that the place does not impact negatively any other businesses and causes a current business to close. I wish the City and David Taylor spent the money better and invested in something other than nightclubs and restaurants. Haven't we learned that we need other businesses on K Street. The City needs housing, hotels, and other attractions at a critical mass. Zen 2009-04-13T16:36:07Z Zen comment-5147 2009-03-27T17:46:23Z 2009-03-27T17:46:23Z The vote was done by the Sacramento County Board of Supervisors not the City of Sacramento Council. Zen 2009-03-27T17:46:23Z Zen comment-5104 2009-03-26T19:44:50Z 2009-03-26T19:44:50Z The City is using the money for street resurfacing because it was one of the only type of projects that met the stimulas criteria. Projects had to be ready to go and be environmental cleared. The contract go through a bidding process. Council does not even look at approving them until staff has already chosen a bid and recommended the contract for Council Approval. Zen 2009-03-26T19:44:50Z Zen comment-4839 2009-03-20T22:05:30Z 2009-03-20T22:05:30Z The property at the least is workth around $3.3 Million which is what the City paid for the property. The City did not do the months of outreach to Midtown business owners that this City statement states. Gadfly - I hear from some real estate sources the City would most likely get half to two-thirds that price in the market today. It looks like the sold at the right time. The deal with giving half the proceeds back to Mr. Taylor without prejudice is another story. Another tidbit to chew over. I heard the club owner doesn't even have the $1.7 Million for his part of the deal He is selling shares in the project to get the money he needs. Zen 2009-03-20T22:05:30Z Zen comment-4552 2009-03-13T17:52:02Z 2009-03-13T17:52:02Z The land and the Sheraton money is a subsidy of over $8.6 Million. You must count the cost the City had in buying the land and giving it for free to the developer. Its a subsidy of over 40% to a project in a down economy that will compete with other established busineses. Crazy! Zen 2009-03-13T17:52:02Z Zen comment-4551 2009-03-13T17:51:04Z 2009-03-13T17:51:04Z FYI. These venues are geared to adults not kids. Zen 2009-03-13T17:51:04Z Zen comment-3989 2009-02-27T23:17:09Z 2009-02-27T23:17:09Z FYI. Motion pictures in concept was born in the early 1800's. The first motion pictures were invented in the 1890's by the Lumière brothers in France, William K. L. Dickson and a guy named Thomas Alva Edison. Zen 2009-02-27T23:17:09Z Zen comment-3387 2009-02-11T23:55:33Z 2009-02-11T23:55:33Z The Naked Lounge at 15th and Q is not in Midtown. Midtown boundaries start at 16th Street heading east. Fremont Park Neighborhood, Capitol Area Neigborhood or even the R Street Corridor would be more correct. Zen 2009-02-11T23:55:33Z Zen comment-2832 2009-01-29T18:31:53Z 2009-01-29T18:31:53Z I think you meant the block of 14th to 15th and R and Q. The other new businesses opening at 14th and R in the old Perfection Bakery Building are the Shady Lady Saloon and Magpie Deli & Catrering. Zen 2009-01-29T18:31:53Z Zen comment-2645 2009-01-22T18:45:25Z 2009-01-22T18:45:25Z What? You need to explain the Clinton Palin comment. I supported Clinton but did not support Palin and McCain. I can say the say same for many of my friends and others I know who supported Clinton in the primaries. Zen 2009-01-22T18:45:25Z Zen comment-2381 2009-01-15T23:13:43Z 2009-01-15T23:13:43Z The "Sodomy is Sin" person is a fixture at the Capitol for long time now. He drives around and around the Capitol til he finds a parking space in front and stays there most of the day. Then he finds some parking spot in the surrounding neighborhoods and camps out til the next day. I think he lives out east towards the Sierra's. On the budget cuts....I think the protest are in vain in some ways. There is simply not enough money coming into the state's coffers to pay for everthing. Some program and jobs will be cut but deciding what and who is going to make somebody unhappy. Its a lose/lose situation. Zen 2009-01-15T23:13:43Z Zen comment-1572 2008-12-18T19:33:10Z 2008-12-18T19:33:10Z I have always considered the grid as the Central City and the Streetcar and outer first suburbs (East Sac, Land Park, Curtis Park, Tahoe, and Oak Park) of the Central City. Midtown does have a defined area. Basically its in the Central City from 16th Street to the Cap City Freeway, River to the Cap City Freeway to the South. Within the Central City, Midtown, and Soutside Community Districts are a number of smaller neighborhoods or districts like The Handle District (or as I like to call it LCap), Boulevard Park, Win Park.....so on. Zen 2008-12-18T19:33:10Z Zen comment-1375 2008-12-13T20:06:00Z 2008-12-13T20:06:00Z This is just one large issue among others in activating and bringing the people to downtown. Yes it can be circular but the circle must start somewhere. I did not intend to express all urban streetscapes are dreary just our downtown. It's not just boarded buildings, it is the design of the street to the buildings and everything in between that remain poor. People don't feel comfortable in disjointed streetscapes. If given the choice environments of Midtown over Downtown a majority of people are going to choose Midtown. Of course Midtown could use some unifying streetscape elements too. As successful as Midtown is it could use more lights, better landscaping, and pedestrian amenities like benches and trash/recycling receptacles. I think K Street is making progress from 13th Street to 10th, however I would wager that it will take at lease 10 years before we see a bustling K Street that is on par with Midtown. I think the City should plan to make hotels a priority on K Street. One big hotel with over 400 rooms for the convention center. Would 2 or 3 more hotels not put people on the streets and bring 24 hour type feel to the area? It would be more plausible than trying to build high rise condos in our market. Zen 2008-12-13T20:06:00Z Zen comment-1381 2008-12-12T23:26:46Z 2008-12-12T23:26:46Z Great article. I don't know if all of the dance halls, theaters, and all age businesses would have survived even if the big projects like if the I-5, or the M Street Demo would not have happened. Cultural and economic changes would have made it tough. These projects sure did result in the dull downtown it has been for the past 3 to 4 decades and handicapped it from succeeding as livable and entertaining section of the Central City going forward. Zen 2008-12-12T23:26:46Z Zen comment-1380 2008-12-12T23:11:40Z 2008-12-12T23:11:40Z I agree with many of the comments you wrote Mr. Burg. One point to add as reasons many of these businesses move to Midtown. Slightly cheaper land costs is only one reason they choose Midtown. I think its more or less people and the physical landscape. Downtown has had a number of attempts at clubs and a restaurant scene but it seems it can never reach the critical mass that Midtown has achieved. The dreary urban streetscape, lack of residents in the area (parked cars strangely is also an attraction to people), and perception of saftey all go against Downtown. Also, the buildings in Midtown are more or less easier to develop into a bar or resturant than a larger mixed use retail/commercial building you find in downtown. These are the things I here from a number of business owners in the Midtown area. Zen 2008-12-12T23:11:40Z Zen comment-1318 2008-12-12T22:53:08Z 2008-12-12T22:53:08Z I would say there is no high school because there are not enough families with kids living in the Central City. Enough for elementary and jr. high schools but not enough for a high school. Zen 2008-12-12T22:53:08Z Zen comment-1315 2008-12-12T18:45:10Z 2008-12-12T18:45:10Z Ben, I agree with you observations. I think the biggest item to think about is the transportation barrier. Light Rail and Bus are not extensive enough to make the Central City available to kids not old enough to drive. Zen 2008-12-12T18:45:10Z Zen comment-1267 2008-12-09T18:29:37Z 2008-12-09T18:29:37Z Bill I agree that we disagree. I don't necessarilly thing the experts or people on the Parks and Rec Commission are more knowledgable about trees. It is a simplification in the case of a tree decision related to a development proposal. If an applicant can go to one less city meeting to get a decision related to a development proposal that is a simplification. Zen 2008-12-09T18:29:37Z Zen comment-1257 2008-12-08T21:05:18Z 2008-12-08T21:05:18Z Yes, taking the "appropriate time" is important in any decision. Is that why we have an urban forest division (in the transporatation department not parks now.)? They take the time to analyze the trees and issues. Don't they give a report that any commission or member of the public can read and interpret? Is that not where the "experts" really are in these decisions? Even then a decision like the one you are worried about comes down to mixture of values and expertise. Shouldn't city staff or the planning commission be better suited try to strike a balance between the project and the urban forest? I don't think it comes down to "profitability or livability." I don't think its as black and white as that. I think trees are important to Sacramento and the Central City. Its one piece to our vision of livibility of this area but I think the process of making decisions about trees and development is convoluted righ now. I think appropriate decisions can be made from one related process and commission not two seperate ones. By the way there is no transportation or mobility commission. We have council, design, preservation, planning, parks and a number of advisory groups/committees. I can't imagine the mess such a commission would create. Zen 2008-12-08T21:05:18Z Zen comment-1251 2008-12-08T17:52:54Z 2008-12-08T17:52:54Z I don't necessary see it that way. I like trees. I have many fond memories of climbing trees and sitting under trees on a hot summber day in my youth. I walk everywhere in Central City and appreciate the shade trees that we have in Sacramento. However, I think we go a little too far in our obsession with some of decaying, older trees. I actually think the city proposal makes sense in many ways. People always talk about the many levels of bureaucracy to get any City decision. When the City tries to consolidate the system others get upset. The planning commission would not make a decision blindly. There are many smart people, community people on the commission that can read a staff report or tree report to make an informed decision. I do think setbacks and stepbacks are important for new trees but some of the requested distances are asking too much. There needs to be a balance between maximizing space in a development, planting new trees to replace the many older trees, providing more density in our central city without having to go to two different commissions to get a decision wasting time and money for the City and the developer. People upset with a potential tree removal can still reflect there opinion at Planning Commission. By the way, since when did this become a Save our Trees website. Every article on the front page is about trees. Zen 2008-12-08T17:52:54Z Zen comment-1015 2008-11-21T21:42:17Z 2008-11-21T21:42:17Z Just a clarification. Rob Fong is a City Council member not an Assembly member. Also, I think it is important to point out the Southside Garden site was purchased by the Capitol Area Development Authority and given to the City as part of the old Mandela Garden mitigation for developing the Fremont Mews Apartments at 15th and Q Streets. Zen 2008-11-21T21:42:17Z Zen comment-974 2008-11-19T01:02:27Z 2008-11-19T01:02:27Z True Mr. Burg, but I find that similar interests in NAG can sometimes be a slippery slope of NIMBY-ism. The meetings have little mix of diversity. Some neighborhood "representives" were acuatully there as individuals not representing their neighbors. Some neighborhood groups don't participate because they don't like the negitive feel of the group. With that written, there are some good that comes from the NAG meetings. The development updates and police updates are great. Zen 2008-11-19T01:02:27Z Zen comment-952 2008-11-18T19:49:03Z 2008-11-18T19:49:03Z Actually the acronym is very appropriate. Zen 2008-11-18T19:49:03Z