Floyd Hancock comment-21355 2010-01-27T16:12:01Z 2010-01-27T16:12:01Z I personally know at least 7 people that will not jump through the hoops established by the legislature. The cost of concealable firearms has been increased to cover the political requirements of purchase. Persons that live in low income neighborhoods are denied a defensive firearm by the state due to the cost and the type of inexpensive gun not being available to them. The state has preempted free choice of available inventory with their politically inspired firearms safety board that determines which guns are "worthy" of being sold in California. So yes people are being denied the right to purchase any defensive firearm they wish. All citizens in the state are being denied the right of self defense by the inability to obtain a CCW permit. They are denied free choice of the type of firearm they wish to carry and they are subjected to completely useless regulation in securing the most effective personal defense tool available unless you are fortunate to have your own cop. Floyd Hancock 2010-01-27T16:12:01Z JimMichael comment-21344 2010-01-27T06:08:05Z 2010-01-27T06:08:05Z How many people are being priced out of the firearms market? JimMichael 2010-01-27T06:08:05Z William Burg comment-21341 2010-01-27T05:42:46Z 2010-01-27T05:42:46Z Firearms regulation in California has artificially raised the price of guns and gun ownership, so yes, people have been denied firearms via economic means. The question at issue is concealed firearms permits, and yes, many Californians who would be entitled to receive a concealed firearms permit in 38 states cannot do so in California because there is no shall-issue requirement. These are not people who are criminals or otherwise prohibited from owning firearms, who can and often do legally own firearms. William Burg 2010-01-27T05:42:46Z William Burg comment-21340 2010-01-27T05:38:47Z 2010-01-27T05:38:47Z JimMichael: None, which is exactly as much correlation as there is between concealed firearms permits and accidental gun deaths. It is merely indicative of the willingness of people to ignore the facts when they don't coincide with their opinions. William Burg 2010-01-27T05:38:47Z JimMichael comment-21332 2010-01-27T01:26:36Z 2010-01-27T01:26:36Z But are people being denied guns? Who has given up and not bought a gun because of all the regulations? JimMichael 2010-01-27T01:26:36Z Floyd Hancock comment-21328 2010-01-26T22:21:27Z 2010-01-26T22:21:27Z Law abiding citizens in California must sumount many political hurdles in order to obtain a gun and many just give up, but then that is the gun hating legislature's desired goal to frustrate, delay and complicate the process so no one will buy a gun. Murderers, rapists and robbers do not obtain the Firearms Safety Certificate required by those that wish to purchase a defensive firearm. They do not abide by the ten day waiting period, they do not submit to a backgroud check, they do not go to a licensed dealer to process the transaction so these crooks are not denied any gun they wish. The law abiding are the ones that are stifled, regulated and purposely confused by the myriad of laws, policies and hostile legislature that impede their constitutional rights. Floyd Hancock 2010-01-26T22:21:27Z JimMichael comment-21294 2010-01-26T17:56:14Z 2010-01-26T17:56:14Z What is the correlation between the global warming debate and the concealed weapon debate? JimMichael 2010-01-26T17:56:14Z JimMichael comment-21274 2010-01-26T06:14:53Z 2010-01-26T06:14:53Z Are people that want to own guns in California being denied guns? JimMichael 2010-01-26T06:14:53Z William Burg comment-21263 2010-01-26T02:41:29Z 2010-01-26T02:41:29Z Right, "no agreed upon conclusions." Just like the jury is still out on global warming... William Burg 2010-01-26T02:41:29Z Floyd Hancock comment-21262 2010-01-26T00:13:56Z 2010-01-26T00:13:56Z The U.K. is in the midst of the great experiment on abolishing gun ownership. The more restrictions placed on gun ownership the higher the crime rate, likewise Australia and California. The population of the U.K. is somewhat more than California with that state about equal with Canada. Area wise our northern neighbor is, roughly, the size of the U.S. The Canadiens are also struggling with a liberal minority over the obliteration of firearms in that country. Their gun registry has exceeded 2 billion dollars when early estimates quoted a 2 million dollar price tag for no perceived benefit. They are now trying to scrap the long gun registry as a fools solution to no problem The Japanese population is approximately 127.2 million, less than half that of the U.S., yet their suicide rate is over twice that of our country despite the ever increasing number of guns here and no gun possession allowed there. It is also curious as to why our overall crime rare continues to decline when so many new firearms are added to the private possession of citizens daily. Floyd Hancock 2010-01-26T00:13:56Z JimMichael comment-21253 2010-01-25T16:46:47Z 2010-01-25T16:46:47Z http://islandia.law.yale.edu/ayers/Ayres_Donohue_article.pdf And two Yale professors took apart Lott's book. I'm not saying which side is correct, but there is no agreed upon conclusions. I also think there is something that all these studies miss, Canada has high gun ownership rates and very low gun deaths, but then a nation like Japan or England have zero gunownership rates and very gun deaths. Gun control is not the solution to the violence in America, but either is gun ownership. JimMichael 2010-01-25T16:46:47Z Floyd Hancock comment-21252 2010-01-25T16:07:22Z 2010-01-25T16:07:22Z Research by Professor Gary Kleck of the University of Florida has determined that defensive fireams uses occur up to 2.5 million times a year. Professor Kleck is not an NRA stooge. Another researcher is Professor John Lott and in his book "More Guns, Less Crime" documents that the more law abiding citizens that possess firearms the safer is society. The Brady Bunch has poo-pooed the study at every turn but cannot disprove it. Along with gun ownership comes responsibility in securing them against unauthorized use. This is not to say they should be made inoperable for emergency defensive use. Each firearm owner must evaluate their own circumstances with regards to securing their guns. Universal mandates by the state cannot forsee individual needs without some conflict with individual constitutional rights. The notion that those that possess firearms are more likely to injure themselves than those that don't is just that, a notion. Every person, no doubt, possesses a knife of some kind, does this theory hold true for them also? Floyd Hancock 2010-01-25T16:07:22Z JimMichael comment-21246 2010-01-25T06:15:06Z 2010-01-25T06:15:06Z Yes, the one in Stockton, I had heard about both. There is no conclusive evidence that allowing concealed weapons reduces crime and by conclusive I mean generally agreed upon. At best the different studies on the effect of concealed weapons have varying conclusions. The reason I site accidental firearm deaths, is because just as much as a firearm can save you it can also hurt you or your family or your friends. So the public policy question is how do you allow for self defense while mitgating accidents? It's not as JimKnapp suggests an all or nothing debate. JimMichael 2010-01-25T06:15:06Z LandParkRes comment-21245 2010-01-25T06:04:03Z 2010-01-25T06:04:03Z He's probably referring to the 3 year old in Stockton: http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100120/A_NEWS/1200303 LandParkRes 2010-01-25T06:04:03Z William Burg comment-21244 2010-01-25T05:59:53Z 2010-01-25T05:59:53Z Most of the country uses a "shall-issue" system--if there is no reason to deny a permit, why deny it? The proof is seen in the drop in crime rates in states with shall-issue. As to accidental firearm deaths, they are at an all-time low. Yes Jim Michael, there are accidental firearm deaths...why do accidental firearm deaths mean that shall-issue permits are a bad idea? Does one have a direct relationship upon the other? If you have chosen to discount both statistics and anecdotal evidence, do you prefer to rely entirely on rhetoric, are you trying to make some kind of postmodern point about how nothing is knowable, or just trying to dismiss arguments you don't agree with? And what boy in Cabazon are you referring to? The only story a Google-search turns up is a 3 year old who was beaten to death--tragic, of course, but not an accidental firearms death. Could you provide a link to the story? William Burg 2010-01-25T05:59:53Z LandParkRes comment-21241 2010-01-25T05:19:40Z 2010-01-25T05:19:40Z I'm glad you were able to protect your family, but I'm sad that a 3 year old boy accidently killed himself in Cabazon, CA several days ago because his father left a gun out. Your story is not unique and either is the boy's story from Cabazon. LandParkRes 2010-01-25T05:19:40Z JimMichael comment-21240 2010-01-25T05:07:17Z 2010-01-25T05:07:17Z I actually believe people have the right to own firearms, but like everything else it should be regulated. JimMichael 2010-01-25T05:07:17Z JimMichael comment-21199 2010-01-25T05:06:00Z 2010-01-25T05:06:00Z Hey you pointed out irony! Good job. JimMichael 2010-01-25T05:06:00Z fiveohday comment-21197 2010-01-25T02:24:31Z 2010-01-25T02:24:31Z I'd been a fan of Pete Knight for forty-five years and his heroisim and desire to serve until his last breath was unassailable. But I remain unclear why having local law enforcement determine if a concealed permit is justified is a bad thing. I've been around firearms most of my life, both hunting and later in the military, and enjoy using them today and I believe the right to own and bear arms is, and was intended to be, a constitutional right. But AB357's changes "Upon good cause", and "may" to "shall" is just sloppy legislation and bad writing. The citizens of California and responsible gun owners deserve better. fiveohday 2010-01-25T02:24:31Z The Parrhesiac comment-21190 2010-01-24T20:41:08Z 2010-01-24T20:41:08Z Actually the research was not funded by the NRA. But clealry you're a Leftie nut who believes all citizens should be disarmed. Feel free to move to China. And hope the cops come and save you the next time you are the victim of a home invasion robbery or a violent crime. My family has been, but thanks to my firearm i protected my family. There are gang members in prison now, and this community is a safer place...because I am a well armed citizen. The Parrhesiac 2010-01-24T20:41:08Z The Parrhesiac comment-21191 2010-01-24T20:39:32Z 2010-01-24T20:39:32Z "Nothing is conclusive" - "conclusive you have no logical reasoning" Conclusion = you have a very limited ability to conclude The Parrhesiac 2010-01-24T20:39:32Z LandParkRes comment-21184 2010-01-24T18:31:27Z 2010-01-24T18:31:27Z Bring out your NRA sponsored research. You can tell the story of how a local grandpa stopped a home burglary because he shot the criminal and I can tell you about a dead boy whose dad left his hand gun unlocked and loaded. LandParkRes 2010-01-24T18:31:27Z JimMichael comment-21183 2010-01-24T18:28:47Z 2010-01-24T18:28:47Z What does "pretty conclusive" mean? Nothing is conclusive, let alone "pretty conclusive". Conclusive is a final determination, and nothing is final when it comes to public policy. Saying pretty conclusive is like saying "maybe yes". I'm sure he has his research and you have yours, although by the look of your previous posts, its conclusive you have no logical reasoning. JimMichael 2010-01-24T18:28:47Z The Parrhesiac comment-21182 2010-01-24T17:46:32Z 2010-01-24T17:46:32Z Really? Actually the research in this area is pretty conclusive. Did you do a national survey, one that know one knows about? The Parrhesiac 2010-01-24T17:46:32Z LandParkRes comment-21139 2010-01-24T03:13:52Z 2010-01-24T03:13:52Z For every story you can post about a handgun saving a life, I can post a story about a handgun accident taking one. LandParkRes 2010-01-24T03:13:52Z William Burg comment-20075 2010-01-01T22:22:34Z 2010-01-01T22:22:34Z The law also seems based on the idea that no criminal would have access to the specialized tools necessary to remove the microstamping from the firing pin, like sandpaper. William Burg 2010-01-01T22:22:34Z The Parrhesiac comment-20067 2010-01-01T15:28:13Z 2010-01-01T15:28:13Z So use a revolver...or a shotgun. The Parrhesiac 2010-01-01T15:28:13Z