When the Seattle-based Starbucks Corporation decided to shutter its Oak Park store on Stockton Boulevard, it sent shock waves throughout the neighborhood. The Oak Park coffee shop is more than just a place to grab a cup of Joe; it's a community hang out. Civic groups meet there, art lovers visiting the 40 Acres gallery next door linger during Second Saturday, and it's one of the few places in North Oak Park where neighbors can get together. Vice Mayor Lauren Hammond, Mayor Johnson, and commu... StevenMaviglio CCC 2009-04-24T17:03:14Z 2009-04-24T17:03:14Z

as far as gas prices-ti have always found that the bon faire at broadway and alhambra is consistently less that anywhere else in the downtown area. anyone else?

CCC 2009-04-24T17:03:14Z Harry Osibin 2009-04-24T06:31:20Z 2009-04-24T06:31:20Z

Patrick J.-Please tell me where it is an I'll buy gas there. Midtown has lower prices especially at ARCO. Why would gas be cheaper in the ghetto? BTW, there is no free market in this country. The "free market" that is espoused in this country is a very simplistic concept to address very complex situations.

Harry Osibin 2009-04-24T06:31:20Z savemidtown 2009-04-24T04:08:05Z 2009-04-24T04:08:05Z

Before KJ took over the Guild complex it was pretty run down but on the up side - small arts groups could afford the rent and put on really cutting edge exhibits & music events. Events at the Guild were the only sign of life in the vicinity for years, much like the Crest was on K Street until only the past year. The stuff we saw at the Guild could not happen in mainstream galleries and clubs. While the restoration of the Guild is a huge asset to Oak Park, we lost something too. At some point another business that creates community will find its way into that space.

savemidtown 2009-04-24T04:08:05Z JavaAddict 2009-04-24T04:07:18Z 2009-04-24T04:07:18Z

what nonsense. 1. A local business COULD do a better job than starbucks because it IS a local business, it COULD share a closer relationship with the community, which COULD result in greater profits. this is EXACTLY the reason why I avoid starbucks and frequent the local coffee shops instead. 2. As for this side issue of bailouts, you missed the point entirely. this whole "magic hand of the free market" is absolute nonsense, over-simplified to cover the complexity and uncertainty with the theory. With the bailout issue we face today, if we allow one huge company to die out, countless jobs would be lost, lowering consumer spending, and further harming the economy (and then multiply this times the number of companies dead). Government intervention is simply necessary to avoid a worse result. Also, the application of this free-market theory to our economic problems today would be most unwise - see the following about former federal reserve chief Alan Greenspan, a lifelong advocate of free markets: Asked by committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, whether his free-market convictions pushed him to make wrong decisions, especially his failure to rein in unsafe mortgage lending practices, [Alan Greenspan] replied that indeed he had found a flaw in his ideology, one that left him very distressed. "In other words, you found that your view of the world, your ideology was not right?" Waxman asked. "Absolutely, precisely," replied Greenspan, who stepped down as Fed chief in 2006 after more than 18 years as chairman. "That's precisely the reason I was shocked, because I have been going for 40 years or more with very considerable evidence it was working exceptionally well." Greenspan offered his re-examination as decisionmakers and the public are broadly questioning the deregulatory trend that dominated federal policymaking circles for three decades. Many now have concluded that lax oversight permitted bad housing loans to overwhelm the financial system. Even Republican presidential candidate John McCain vows much stricter regulation of Wall Street. Fed watchers said they were stunned by Greenspan's mea culpa. For his whole adult life, the former Fed chairman has been a devotee of the philosophy of Ayn Rand, who celebrated free-market capitalism as the world's most moral economic order and advocated a strict laissez-faire approach to government regulation of the marketplace. "Alan Greenspan has been one of the stalwarts in arguing for free markets and he was backpedaling today," said Brian Wesbury, chief economist with the Illinois investment firm First Trust Portfolios. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/10/23/BUI513N8QM.DTL

JavaAddict 2009-04-24T04:07:18Z Patrick J. 2009-04-24T00:35:52Z 2009-04-24T00:35:52Z

huh? the cheapest gas is always in the ghetto..

Patrick J. 2009-04-24T00:35:52Z Harry Osibin 2009-04-23T23:59:53Z 2009-04-23T23:59:53Z

Re: Grocery prices. Over the years I have learned the citizens pay more at neighborhood stores than at crosstown chains. The only way these businesses can compete (if only marginally) to buy from coop distributors, such as Western Brands or something. Mercada Loco is one and they still probably are pennies higher. (Should I phrase it, people pay more in the ghetto. The cheapest gas is always found in more affluent areas.)

Harry Osibin 2009-04-23T23:59:53Z Harry Osibin 2009-04-23T23:55:07Z 2009-04-23T23:55:07Z

Right on time!!

Harry Osibin 2009-04-23T23:55:07Z Dustin L. Littrell 2009-04-23T18:06:11Z 2009-04-23T18:06:11Z

Raoul - depends what you mean by "down the street" If you can't walk there easily form the Broadway location, it doesn't count. There is a synergy around the 40 Acres development that you can't just recreate at another Starbuck's location, it's all contextual. Starbuck's is not the catalyst here, it's the Oak Park Central business district or lack thereof one currently...that's the issue and Starbuck's leaving only takes us in the wrong direction. Does this clarify the intent of why we want to keep them or find a suitable replacement? It has everything to do with business and the City benefits from those business revenues. Begging? That's not exactly how I see it.

Dustin L. Littrell 2009-04-23T18:06:11Z Steven Maviglio 2009-04-23T16:53:59Z 2009-04-23T16:53:59Z

no redevelopment funds were used to aid Starbucks, just the redevelopment of a dilapidated building that provides jobs that put food on the table for people and generate revenue for the city. And the rent is not subsidized.

Steven Maviglio 2009-04-23T16:53:59Z Jim Knapp 2009-04-23T16:44:12Z 2009-04-23T16:44:12Z

Java City could not make money at the Weatherstone, one of the greatest coffee shop buildings and locations one could ever find in Sacramento, what makes you think they could sell coffee in a ghetto?

Jim Knapp 2009-04-23T16:44:12Z Jim Knapp 2009-04-23T16:38:47Z 2009-04-23T16:38:47Z

Starbucks cant make a go of it in this location AND they have been subsidized by our tax dollars (Redevelopment) We live in free market, if there is not enough demand, then let them close this location. What makes any of you think that a local business would do a better job than Starbucks? This is the same kind of mentality that has led to the TRILLIONS of dollars in bail outs. Government needs to let the free market do what it does, correct itself without any government intervention. When did it become OK for the taxpayers to bail out every business that our corrupt politicians happen to like or receive campaign contributions from?. If you want to help Starbucks, go buy a latte with your own money and don't force me at gunpoint to subsidize it. (try not paying your taxes)

Jim Knapp 2009-04-23T16:38:47Z William Burg 2009-04-23T16:18:35Z 2009-04-23T16:18:35Z

To be honest, Oak Park needs more inexpensive grocery stores where people can buy the basics, not a specialty gourmet deli like Magpie. It's too bad "Fresh & Easy" wasn't willing to modify their standardized design enough to address the needs of the neighborhood.

William Burg 2009-04-23T16:18:35Z John Boyer 2009-04-23T14:52:33Z 2009-04-23T14:52:33Z

The Coffee garden,Naked or or perhaps Temple should step up to the plate and come here. KJs Starbucks was always busy when i used to go there. Must be blamed on poor management on the all hype Starbucks. I think OP needs a Magpie! Not alot of nutritious AND delicious eateries in this neck of the woods. OP needs wholesome eateries with good coffee.

John Boyer 2009-04-23T14:52:33Z Tony Sheppard 2009-04-23T07:11:11Z 2009-04-23T07:11:11Z

Just because Starbucks found it to be a relatively unappealing location in their vast network, doesn't mean it can't work for somebody else - especially as a new tenant could probably negotiate a new lease at a discount in today's soft market.

Tony Sheppard 2009-04-23T07:11:11Z Steven Maviglio 2009-04-23T06:12:41Z 2009-04-23T06:12:41Z

Not true. The whole site was in total disrepair until Kevin Johnson fixed it up, along with the Guild and the other three businesses that are there (plus the housing).

Steven Maviglio 2009-04-23T06:12:41Z Susie Shields 2009-04-23T04:02:09Z 2009-04-23T04:02:09Z

Give up on the Starbuck's idea. It didn't work, they weren't making a profit. No one wants their local coffee shop to close so why do the folks in Oak Park feel they're entitled to keep a closing Starbuck's vs another neighborhood in the same situation? Wasn't there a local coffee place that was displaced by KJ for the Starbuck's? I heard an Oak Park local talking about how a mom and pop coffee place was moved to make way for the Starbuck's. Does anyone know if this is true?

Susie Shields 2009-04-23T04:02:09Z Collin 2009-04-23T02:42:53Z 2009-04-23T02:42:53Z

I could be totally wrong about this, but I think that as a small business looking for their next prospect you might look at the area overall and think that compared to somewhere else you could invest the huge expense and risk of opening a new place, there don't seem to be a lot of the community riding their bikes down Stockton Blvd through Oak Park to go hang out on their laptops and check their Twitter accounts at their favorite local coffee shop. Of course the public outcry towards closing the Starbucks could go to show that I'm wrong, but I think any of the places mentioned could probably find a more attractive place for their next store.

Collin 2009-04-23T02:42:53Z William Burg 2009-04-22T23:27:41Z 2009-04-22T23:27:41Z

The location isn't profitable for Starbucks because they are a giant chain that vastly overextended themselves to the point where the idea of a Starbucks next to another Starbucks became a common joke. A unique place has its own appeal--while some folks will drive by a local coffee shop and give preference to a corporate chain, I don't think many of those folks spend too much time driving through Oak Park. And a lot of folks in Sacramento these days seem to be more the kind who will ride past a Starbucks (often on their bikes) in order to patronize a unique local business. So it's kind of a double-edged sword. Places like neighborhood cafes often become more than just a place to buy coffee--it is a phenomenon documented in Ray Oldenburg's "The Great Good Place." They become third spaces, where community forms.

William Burg 2009-04-22T23:27:41Z Dustin L. Littrell 2009-04-22T23:03:36Z 2009-04-22T23:03:36Z

I think the location needs coffee and/or food, a space alone will not serve the same function.

Dustin L. Littrell 2009-04-22T23:03:36Z Ben Ilfeld 2009-04-22T22:44:48Z 2009-04-22T22:44:48Z

It is funny you should describe it that way. What if it were just a gathering place paid for like a Co-Op rather than a coffee shop?

Ben Ilfeld 2009-04-22T22:44:48Z Dustin L. Littrell 2009-04-22T22:26:45Z 2009-04-22T22:26:45Z

Being a resident of Oak Park and seeing the "Broadway" Starbuck's from my front stoop, something needs to be there and much of the neighborhood agrees. Whether that be a Starbuck's or other coffee purveyor, This location has become much more than just a coffee shop. It's become a board room, community center, conference room, meeting point, etc. that just so happens to serve coffee. In a weak economy, it will take something special to replace Starbuck's, survive and thrive. Many suggestion on how to improve the existing coffee retailer have come from local Oak Parkers and forwarded on to Al Williamson, formerly of St. Hope. Al has been in constant negotiations with Starbuck's since they announced the Broadway closure back on April 8th.

Dustin L. Littrell 2009-04-22T22:26:45Z Collin 2009-04-22T21:15:25Z 2009-04-22T21:15:25Z

If the location isnt profitable for Starbucks, why would a local coffee shop want to open in an already not great part of town in a location that's already proven to not be a good investment financially. As much as people don't like Starbucks, a lot of "casual" cafe-goers are probably more likely to go to a Starbucks than some place they've never heard of before - possibly making it even more difficult for a non-chain store to turn a profit in that location.

Collin 2009-04-22T21:15:25Z Tony Sheppard 2009-04-22T20:42:50Z 2009-04-22T20:42:50Z

Yes - Sacramento-based. And criticizing something simply for being a chain is like criticizing success.

Tony Sheppard 2009-04-22T20:42:50Z William Burg 2009-04-22T20:09:48Z 2009-04-22T20:09:48Z

Java City is also a chain, but at least it's a local chain--they might go for it. Naked would be a good choice too! Bring back the Guild Coffeehouse!

William Burg 2009-04-22T20:09:48Z George Jackson 2009-04-22T19:47:11Z 2009-04-22T19:47:11Z

The location is all about community. It doesn't matter whether it is a Starbuck's or not, Oak Park residences need a coffee shop or cafe to gather. If you've spent any time there, you realize the baristas at this Starbuck's are also integral parts of the community. With that said, I agree that we should e spending Sacramento dollars in Sacramento companies. I would propose that Naked coffee rosters, whose roasting operation is only a couple blocks away, come in and hire all the old Starbuck's employees. Too good to be true?

George Jackson 2009-04-22T19:47:11Z Raoul Kleven 2009-04-22T19:46:52Z 2009-04-22T19:46:52Z

I go to Starbucks all the time, but the idea of a city government going out of its way to beg the company not to close a location seems bizarre to me. Isn't there another Starbucks just a few blocks down the street anyway?

Raoul Kleven 2009-04-22T19:46:52Z Tony Sheppard 2009-04-22T19:28:12Z 2009-04-22T19:28:12Z

Java City?

Tony Sheppard 2009-04-22T19:28:12Z CCC 2009-04-22T18:22:58Z 2009-04-22T18:22:58Z

I totally agree, I can't believe people are putting such effort into saving a chain establishment, especially one so often maligned for its relentless expansion at the expense of local shops worldwide. Perhaps it would be more appropriate if a local coffee shop or local/neighborhood entrepeneur opened a coffee shop in the same space, using local coffee. It is good that this spot attracts the community, but if it were owned and operated locally the money would say close to home and not go to a million dollar out of state company. Besides, Coffee Works, Temple and Naked Lounge all have way better coffee.

CCC 2009-04-22T18:22:58Z William Burg 2009-04-22T17:59:48Z 2009-04-22T17:59:48Z

Failing the effort to keep the Starbucks, maybe a locally-based coffee entrepeneur might be interested in opening their own coffee shop in the same building?

William Burg 2009-04-22T17:59:48Z