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Petition drive against downtown K Street Project

by Dale Kooyman, published on April 12, 2009 at 12:55PM

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Why sign the petition against K Street revitalization efforts?

Here we go again.  Pane and followers don't have the originality or creativity to put forward ideas and suggestions for businesses that would revitalize K Street, but they will spend their energy to be nay-sayers to SF entrepreneur's proposal to create entertainment venues.

Sure the project is risky.  Sure it might fail.  Sure it uses tax money.  Have these self-appointed defenders of our tax dollars ever heard of "investment?"  Taxpayer dollars are often used to invest in a community.  What's wrong with that?  Some have said it would be better if we had a “Downtown Market”—like Seattle’s Pike Place Market.  Sounds like a great idea, but that is a risk too. 

Look at the federal government's use of tax dollars to invest in the Tennessee Valley in 1933 when it created the Tennessee Valley Authority.  Was it a risk?  YES!  Was there a guarantee that such an investment would pay off?  NO!  But it has paid the government back in millions more dollars than originally spent and enabled business to thrive, created millions of jobs and raised the standard of living for those millions of people living in that area.  Without that initial spark of investment that area would still be impoverished.

Everyone who goes into business is taking a risk.  What has happened to this city's investment mentality with or without tax dollars?  The past local success of this kind of investment risk can be demonstrated by the $50 million dollars netted by the City with its original $8 million investment in the Sheraton, of which almost half has gone to shoring up our City’s current deficit allowing for fewer cuts to necessary services such as police and fire.  Did anyone know that?  Do the nay-sayers care? 

The type of investment the city approved for K Street and the SF investor is offering to bring to Sacramento's downtown BELONGS downtown and not in Pane's, midtown's or anyone else's residential neighborhood.  An investment strategy tries to predict who its customers will be to help make the investment a success. 

The questions are, then, who are Downtown's customers?  Do Pane and those signing the petition patronize downtown retail and service businesses, dinner houses, nightclubs and bars at night NOW? A first step would be for them to do so, and maybe there wouldn’t be a risk or a need for something else!  Absent that, how about those twenty one thousand plus petition signers (10% required registered city voters to sign the petition to get it on the next regular ballot) commit to being regular customers of the proposed project?  That could result in an early return on the city's investment!   Further, what  ideas do they have?    They should suggest something unique and maybe they would get the tax dollars that they are opposing the SF entrepreneur will get.   That is really how they could help.  But of course, that would mean "putting their money where their mouth is"--hardly a realistic expectation from the experts on "no."

While many residents of Placerville, Roseville, Auburn, Lincoln, Rocklin or other regional suburban residents work downtown, is it a reasonable goal to expect them to stay downtown after work or count on them  and their neighbors to drive back to downtown to be a customer pool to support downtown businesses?  Other than a performance at the Community Center, Music Circus or occasional visit to a museum, I wouldn't place any bets on them.

Aren't downtown's customers primarily the conventioneers, the tourists, the Sacramento visitors who stay in the hotels downtown and residents (and their guests) who live a reasonable distance from downtown--all of whom are looking for something interesting and fun to do evenings?  What is the present variety of those activities for them to walk a few blocks to participate in or see during the evenings in downtown Sacramento?

Why sign a petition that will go to city voters, the majority of whom care little to nothing about downtown or ever shop or visit downtown?  Voting on this issue is reminiscent of the years-ago valiant efforts by preservationists to save the Alhambra Theater by placing its fate on a citywide ballot when most voters then cared little to nothing about that historic unique theater.  Those uncaring voters killed the Alhambra.  We elect our city council to act in our city's best interests.  Sometimes they haven’t, but in this case they did.

If you want to see entertainment in vibrant "downtown where the lights are bright," you won’t get it by signing this petition or voting for it if there are enough valid signatures to place it on the ballot.
 

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April 12, 2009 | 09:06 PM
Please sign the petition everyone, this handout to a wealthy SF developer has become the norm around here and there are much better places to 'invest' this money for the public good.

Dale, you’re a shill for the SF developers aren’t you?
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April 13, 2009 | 10:09 AM
Please watch your accusations and keep things from getting personal.
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edited on  April 13, 2009 | 05:12 PM
Having money stolen from you and your family at gun point by corrupt elected officials who then give it to campaign contributors is not personal?
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April 13, 2009 | 09:03 AM
Thanks Trapper for making Dale's point. Criticism for the sake of criticism. No vision, just name calling. Since when did SF become a negative connotation? Why is Dale automatically a shill? Could it be that he is right so you have no argument, just name-calling? Get your fact right, argue the points and grow up. Any one who signs this petition is unfortunately being mislead. (BTW the developer is from Sacramento)
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April 13, 2009 | 10:52 AM
I asked a question Clare, please show me where I called Dale a name.
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April 29, 2009 | 09:18 PM
ClairemontD, please tell me it isn't true! You do not know that the politics of SF iare held in shame by most Americans?
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Zen
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April 13, 2009 | 09:36 AM
Dale just wants nightclubs and bars/restraurants out of Midtown. Anyone who knows Dale, or of him, knows that. The percentage of subsidy in the project is crazy for what the public gets back, but this issue is dead. Let them build it. If it succeeds great. If it fails I hope the CIty and Taylor learned a lesson. I do hope the economy recovers enough that the place does not impact negatively any other businesses and causes a current business to close. I wish the City and David Taylor spent the money better and invested in something other than nightclubs and restaurants. Haven't we learned that we need other businesses on K Street. The City needs housing, hotels, and other attractions at a critical mass.
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April 13, 2009 | 08:50 PM
Totally false perception, Zen, about what I want or don't want. Since you don't know me and I don't know you, you are accepting hearsay.. Let me know who you are and then we can have a dialog..
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April 13, 2009 | 10:42 PM
this isn't purely financial - part of what the city gets back is a main thoroughfare that doesn't look like a blighted wasteland
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April 13, 2009 | 11:16 PM
Well Tony unlike you, who obviously loves giving his money to the government, for many reasonable citizens the issue is in fact purely financial...as in not wanting to have our tax dollars going to line the pockets of a man who has corrupted our city council so he can build bars with OUR money.

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April 14, 2009 | 01:22 AM
lovely use of the word "reasonable" - there are clearly many "reasonable" people on both sides of this debate - and, as has been said before, given that this money is already contractually obligated to developments with this company (having also been raised on the proceeds of developments from this same company), i'm quite comfortable with it fighting urban blight in a portion of the city where several blocks of vacant storefronts have stunted chances of redevelopment - i walked from the cathedral to Old Sac yesterday with an out-of-town friend and it's embarrassing down there - OUR tax dollars are used on a whole host of things that one or both of us probably disapprove of, but arresting the descent of the central city before it looks like the set of a post-apocalyptic zombie movie is not one of my greatest concerns
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Zen
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April 14, 2009 | 03:44 PM
Dale whether you like it or not that is the perception and reputation you carry around town when you consistantly oppose projects and especially those that provide alcohol. When you make public comments about where restaurants and nightclubs should be, instead of Midtown, you create a reputation based on that. I apologize but I need to keep my identity private due to my line of work. We can still have dialogue regardless of who I am. It comes down to this: I totally disagree with your opinions on the matters of Midtown.
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April 13, 2009 | 09:54 AM
True. Like the two theaters, 500-room Sheraton Hotel and 200-unit housing project - all built by THIS development team (among several other office projects).

I don't think Dale is the only one who is not looking for Midtown to be the region's destination for night time entertainment, but the main point is right on... things are difficult enough - let's move on and try being a little proactive for a change rather than defensive. If the 'opponents' put as much time and energy into their own business as they are in trying to stop competition, we'd all be better off.
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April 13, 2009 | 05:06 PM
Yes! All built by this development team through no -bid contracts because he owns our city council.
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April 13, 2009 | 10:03 AM
The Developer is a Sacramento business owner who has taken significant risks in downtown Sacramento. The SF tenant is paying market rental rates and is receiving zero subsidy for the project. Entertainment venues on K Street have been a long-standing priority and these locations will be the catalyst for additional retail, housing, hotel etc on K street.

I reiterate previous comments, please folks do your homework!!
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edited on  April 13, 2009 | 11:09 PM
YOU ARE WRONG! According to public testimony, The tenant is paying below market value for rents... and I suspect that Taylor et al.. will have an investment stake in these bars...

BTW...The rate of the rent is moot....the building will be owned by Taylor, at least until he sells for a handsome profit, it like he did with the Sheraton. ( he does not have to pay back the City) So even if the tenant paid 25K a month only Taylor would profit.
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April 13, 2009 | 06:39 PM
What are the rates exactly? I have a feeling some real estate people can set us all straight.
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April 13, 2009 | 10:34 AM
The flip side of wanting bars/nightclubs out of Midtown is wanting more bars/nightclubs in Downtown. For the past few years, Midtown has seen a lot of new restaurants, bars and nightclubs because the land is far cheaper than Downtown. There have been a handful of Downtown projects, but none without some kind of subsidy because the land costs are so much higher and the obstacles that much greater. The success of Midtown has proven that people will come to the central city to be entertained, and for someone driving in from the suburbs for that entertainment, or someone walking from a Midtown residence for entertainment, Downtown is just as convenient as Midtown. It also moves the kind of energy and vitality we have seen in Midtown into a neighborhood that desperately needs it.

Calling Dale a shill is a serious cheap shot, "trapper"...he is a neighborhood activist who has been active in the community for decades. While Dale and I differ in opinion sometimes, I do not doubt his commitment or his integrity for a moment.

Personally I like the current level of energy in Midtown, and as a Midtown resident I appreciate the convenience of having places to dine and be entertained in my own neighborhood, and take advantage of them often. But I worry about too much of a good thing: of having so many entertainment destinations in the central city that it becomes a free-for-all entertainment zone, where residents get trampled and run over by revelers who think of Midtown as a Disneyland where they can behave however they like, and neighborhood residents don't matter.

I am also unconvinced that more entertainment destinations downtown will take away from Midtown's current level of energy. As the central city grows as a destination, it will bring in more people from surrounding cities, not just seeking entertainment but seeking a place to live close to the action. That means more total customers for a larger number of businesses, not a static number of customers--the cliched rising tide that lifts all boats. That level of demand will drive more housing development as the housing market returns, and more downtown residents that will shop and eat and play all over the central city.

But in the meantime we can help make K Street into a more appealing destination. Since many people assume that Sacramento's central city begins and ends with K Street, the better it looks, the better impression we give to visitors and tourists and potential emigrants. Bringing K Street back, whether it is with retail or entertainment or housing, will take public money, at least in the short term, and quite a bit of it. It is inherently harder, but the potential benefit to the city is greater too.

Downtown K Street has failed utterly as a downtown copy of a suburban shopping mall; it's time to stop trying, and try something else. By creating a nightlife district on K, it becomes the one thing that will draw people from the suburbs: something that they can't find in the suburbs. There are plenty of shopping malls already.
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April 13, 2009 | 03:10 PM
This piece is built upon a pretty shaky premise. Regardless of who is pro or con, Taylor struck his deal and this is his money to use in the development of his choosing whether tax payers agree or disagree.

Whatever side you stand on Kooyman's argument doesn't really make any sense, however, and builds a good part of it's point around a strange comparison. The TVA brought much needed, practical assistance to struggling farmers during the depression. To compare that program with a mermaid bar and pizza joint is just downright silly, especially whilst dismissing the construction of a public market in the same breath. A public market though also risky could serve a much larger audience throughout the day and evening as opposed to a nightclub which will be gambling on drawing folks to a stretch of Sacramento that has a poor track record of attracting visitors after dark.
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edited on  April 13, 2009 | 05:05 PM
AEmerson ARE YOU F*@cking kidding me? Taylor was GIVEN the 23-26 million out of the Sheraton dealt..which was also SUBSIDIZED by the taxpayers... he didn't make the deal... HEATHER FARGO gave him our tax dollars...

Our corrupt elected city council, lead by the MOST CORRUPT Mayor we have ever had, Heather Fargo, GAVE Taylor money in return for his support in the Mayoral election...NOTICE that SHE led the charge to give Taylor the money as she was running for office....

TAKE A LOOK AT WHO GIVE THE VAST MAJORITY OF MONEY TO THOSE RUNNING FOR CITY COUNCIL OR MAYOR OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS ! DEVELOPERS... And these same developers have made BILLIONS off of the taxpayers of this city...A handsome return on their investments into campaigns...

It makes me so angry that most of you are too stupid to understand this or just don't care how corrupt our city is.

We deserve what is coming
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April 13, 2009 | 07:38 PM
i'm not f*$&ing kidding you john galt. your scalding diatribe is correct though, it is the city we should be pissed at not taylor. doesn't change the fact that it's a done deal. even if this project gets voted down taylor can and will propose something else. it would be nice if through community activism he could be encouraged to do something better than what is proposed although we shall see.

as for the most corrupt mayor we have ever had... i think you're selling kj short.
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April 14, 2009 | 02:48 PM
KJ has time yet to re-take that award.
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April 13, 2009 | 07:44 PM
Emerson: First, you are wrong. I didn't dismiss the public market at all. If you read the article carefully, I wrote quite clearly that it was a great idea, but it too carried risk. The comparison seems silly and doesn't make sense to you because you miss the point completely. It is about the concept of risk and investment. All investments using tax dollars for economic development are comparable, but size and details may differ and deals are stuck on all. That's part of the package whether we like it or not.

I could have named many other lesser known and smaller urban investments of that and subsequent eras. However, lack of familiarity with such a project would have caused readers to miss the comparison link.

If you lived during that time as I did, then you would know that TVA was one of the most heated national controversies that spanned over 15 years, much of it because tax dollars of the middle class and wealthy were being wasted on "poor farmers" who in the opinion of the naysayers then did not deserve such help. Charges included they were uneducated people who would never make good, and they should help themselves. That only stopped when the payoff slowly began.
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April 13, 2009 | 10:10 PM
i am quite familiar with the tva dale and i still think it's a stretch. risk and investment are about the only thing the two have in common. the tva was a wide sweeping assistance program which provided irrigation, flood control and electricity, amongst many other things to a huge group of people during one of the worst economic times in our nation's history. i don't think i'm wrong in suggesting that the scope of the tva doesn't quite match up with the ambition of a nightclub project on k street. i think you would have been more successful had you found some examples of redevelopment projects comparable to what taylor has proposed which payed off for the region they serve.
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edited on  April 13, 2009 | 11:05 PM
Paid off to whom Emerson? To Taylor?

Redevelopment was never intended to build luxury hotels and martini bars. Redevelopment was to rebuild inner city ghetto's that the free market would not invest in due primarily to the socioeconomic and demographics of the neighborhood. K Street meets none of this criteria. K Street is one block away from our state capitol and left to its own potential, would rebuild itself without public investment.

It is public investment that has only HARMED K street... I5 has cut it off from the water front, and the Westfield mall has made that situation worse.

Many of you are newcomers to the K Street fiasco... In the late 80's & 90's the City and SHRA spent upwards of $200 Million dollars trying to revive K Street and yet it still FAILED! What is going to change this time? What will a couple of martini bars do to revive a poorly planned downtown that no one wants to visit at night. Midtown bars have thrived because people LIVE near the bars and restaurants, but that is not the case with K Street, and never will be no matter how much you wish for it.

DEAR LIBERALS STOP LOOKING TO THE GOVERNMENT FOR EVERYTHING!

It is not the role of government to build hotels and bars and give them to campaign contributors.. this is corruption...but you liberal moral relativists simply look the other way as long as it's your team being corrupted...you people disgust me.
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edited on  April 14, 2009 | 09:42 PM
Emerson: :You may be familiar with TVA but you still don't get the investment , risk and return connection and I can see never will regardless of how it is explained. The two have a great deal in common from the public's perception then with TVA and the public's perception of the K Street Mall. Neither deserve tax payer support--both are a lost cause no matter what you try it is like pouring money down a rat hole.
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April 14, 2009 | 11:04 PM
i get your point dale i just think it's weak but if you'd rather suggest i don't understand than that's okay too. out of curiosity, do you have any examples of similar development projects in other cities built around a similar deal that were or weren't successful? i suppose bottom line i feel like this piece was slanted and poorly researched.
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omf
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April 13, 2009 | 11:04 PM
Comparing the Taylor development on K to the TVA is ridiculous on so many levels that it is almost not worth discussing. The TVA was a massive public works project (ala Hoover Dam) designed by the government to benefit the rural poor. The K Street project is a private plan designed by a developer for the purpose of making money. You can be for or against Taylor's K street plan, but to compare it to the TVA is absurd.

But then, many absurdities (traffic calming, the street pole flier ban and the rejected liquor license for the Weatherstone) seem to originate from that 21st and H neck of Midtown.
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edited on  April 15, 2009 | 11:23 AM
omf: You are entitled to your opinion but you don't get the broad application and similarity either. Incidentally, all redevelopment efforts are targeted at "making money" too in one way or another. What's worse you haven't the foggiest idea of what you're talking about when you cite those examples. Oh, well, ignorance is bliss (in this case, history, ABC codes, traffic engineering, et al) . You're not thinking outside your own little box.
emerson: yes I could cite examples but I can tell from your "logic" hat you will find details,which are not exactly the same----that is your hang up: exactness, so not going to waste my time. Your mind is made up.--that ends the discussion for you and omf .
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edited on  April 15, 2009 | 11:48 AM
apparently, you don't like to think outside your own little neighborhood dale. a brief google search on your name turns up a news story where you are quoted opposing Old Soul's aquisition of a liquor license which i find interesting given your current support of a nightclub on k street using the tva to support your argument. in short this piece you wrote is fine as long as it is represented as an opinion piece and not a news story. you can call it narrow logic but i still don't believe you have any other examples to cite because if you did they would not only fit your argument nicely they would have also been of interest to the community.
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omf
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April 13, 2009 | 11:09 PM
ps to john galt- I'd check the voter registrations on the folks who are running this project and voting for it on the council. Not many liberals, I betcha. Us liberal lefty types want to spend money getting homeless folks out of the tents and keeping the libraries open later, not subsidizing aquatic versions of Hooters.
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April 13, 2009 | 11:27 PM
you're so angry it's hard to take you seriously john. i think if you cooled down for a minute you'd realize that you're arguing with people who aren't necessarily disagreeing with you. except for the liberal thing. that makes no sense. i don't know of many liberals who are pro-development. or pro city government giving money to developers. quite the opposite actually.

okay, let's see what part of that you start yelling and cussing about this time...
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edited on  April 14, 2009 | 07:15 AM
If you're not angry about the blatant corruption in this city, either you're ignorant, complacent or a collaborator.

It is a fact that most politicians in Sacramento are liberal...therefore Liberals must be pro development, they keep voting along party/union lines and elect these liberals to office, who in turn pave over our Valley.

Ray Tretheway and Heather Fargo fast tracked and built Natomas, paving over valuable farm land and creating urban sprawl...and they were both far left liberals...this would tend to disprove your assertion that liberals are against development. Also the Sierra Club and other environmental organizations supported Tretheway and Fargo.



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April 14, 2009 | 01:32 AM
but these are not typical "liberal" causes or values at all - if just about anybody with any sense of the left/right political spectrum but with no experience in Sacramento politics was asked to guess the party affiliation of a politician doing things the way you describe them, the answer would likely be Republican more often than not - and there's no reason to expect that a Republican council wouldn't be just as pro-developer if not more so - and a good portion of the outrage on this issue is also coming from "liberals" (the business owners around intersections like 20th and K are nothing if not politically liberal) - i don't think there's any clear split on party lines here at all, it seems more likely to be aligned with neighborhoods and business interests
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April 14, 2009 | 10:29 AM
i'm pretty new to these forums but have noticed that mr. galt is not... just out curiosity has anyone else recognized the atlas shrugged reference already? once you make that connection galt's ravings make a little more sense. the individual over all hey john?
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April 14, 2009 | 11:32 AM
yes
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edited on  April 14, 2009 | 02:51 PM
Now your learning grasshopper
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April 14, 2009 | 11:54 AM
The important thing to keep in mind when discussing the mysterious Mr. Galt is that he considers anyone to the left of the John Birch Society to be "liberal." His main criticism of George W. Bush is that he wasn't conservative enough. I'm just wondering why he hasn't made like his namesake and disappeared into Galt's Gulch yet.

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edited on  April 14, 2009 | 03:01 PM
I am a centrist actually Billy, I support the rights of middle America, the silent majority.

I have many values that some would describe as liberal...others would say they are more libertarian...I don't blow with the wind, I don't march in lock step with any political organization as 90% of Americans do.

If individualism, freedom and having a great disdain for all forms of corruption are right wing values to you, then ok, you can label me as such if that makes you feel more secure.
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