About 1,500 people gathered on the west steps of the State Capitol Friday afternoon to express their anger with state environmental regulations, which they said were responsible for increased unemployment in the state. Present at the event were talk radio hosts Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty, Congressman Tom McClintock and Mark Meckler, head of the Sacramento Tea Party Patriots and the event's organizer, as well as several business owners and a representative from the National Tea Party Patriot... Files aticama 2009-09-04T07:00:23Z 2009-09-04T07:00:23Z

TP, we are indeed in for some very bad times ahead, and shortly. Van Jones, his new green czar, is a self-proclaimed Marxist. When he lived in San Francisco, he was heavily involved with STORM, or Standing Together to Organize a Revolutionary Movement. A group explicitly committed to revolutionary Marxist politics whose points of unity were revolutionary democracy, revolutionary feminism, and revolutionary internationalism, the central role of the working class, urban Marxism, and Third World Communism. "In December 2002 STORM dissolved due to internal tensions and rivalries. Its most notable leader was Van Jones, who would go on to become President Barack Obama's “Special Advisor for Green Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation” in 2009. " http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7491 This is the type of people he is going to enlist in his attempt to socialize this country. We have to continue on with the tea party movement, but we must organize into a party with a specific set of goals. See my handle you asked me about. Ad @comcast.net and email me if you wish. God Bless America

aticama 2009-09-04T07:00:23Z tpierce2 2009-09-04T05:21:26Z 2009-09-04T05:21:26Z

Aticama, I agree with you regarding McCain. Time to retire but he is a hero and like you, I cannot even imagine what he went through while being truly tortured by the North Vietnamese. Now, to the moment. He should retire with dignity. He ran as a moderate and there is a world of difference between "moderate" and conservative. As a party, he ran, many of us sat it out and we got BHO. The most left wing nut job ever to win the White House. What do you think of Van Johnson and all the other Czars? This does not have the feel of America! It has to stop.

tpierce2 2009-09-04T05:21:26Z aticama 2009-09-03T15:37:32Z 2009-09-03T15:37:32Z

Yes, like: “Why, how astute of you.” That is an example of another hyperbole. God Bless America.

aticama 2009-09-03T15:37:32Z DL 2009-09-03T06:27:41Z 2009-09-03T06:27:41Z

Oh, okay it's just some more hyperbole on the internet.

DL 2009-09-03T06:27:41Z aticama 2009-09-03T06:01:03Z 2009-09-03T06:01:03Z

When he should have been jumping all over Obama and calling him out for the fraud and socialist he is in the debates, he played patty- cake with him, trying to be the nice guy. It is just a metaphor with words we writers use sometimes. Grow an imagination. God Bless America.

aticama 2009-09-03T06:01:03Z DL 2009-09-03T05:52:46Z 2009-09-03T05:52:46Z

"...when he should have been cutting Obamas throat, he played the nice guy." What?

DL 2009-09-03T05:52:46Z aticama 2009-09-03T01:24:08Z 2009-09-03T01:24:08Z

It is time for McCain to retire. He has done well enough for this country, and the years of torture has taken the aggression out of him. And lets fact it, we need aggression in our elected officials these days. Through his entire life this man has show an exemplary record of service for this country, and retirement with full pay is no less then he deserves, far more than most that will get more. My hat is off to the man, he was just not up to this last challenge, when he should have been cutting Obamas throat, he played the nice guy. But in my mind’s eye that takes nothing away from his record. He is a fine American. Can you imagine the courage it took for him to stay in that hell hole when they would have released him? My God, I could not have done it. God Bless America and God Bless John McCain

aticama 2009-09-03T01:24:08Z aticama 2009-09-02T04:56:00Z 2009-09-02T04:56:00Z

Yes, I am an American Citizen natural bore of European stock, and yes it is our immigration laws keeping her out of the US. If I made 400.00 dollars more a year I could sponsor her in the country and she could come, but I do not and there is no debating this issue with the state department. The 10 years is how long I would have to sponsor her for, not how long it would take. At this time she can never come up here. This all came about because of 9\11. Before 9\11 my wife had a 10 year visa that allowed her to come and go as she pleased. The first time she entered after 9\11 they took this visa away from her and implemented the new immigration laws which now exclude the spouses and children of American citizens from getting visitors visas. I have talked to Boxer and Finestines office to no avail. I will get her up here but I will have to become a federal felon to do it. God Bless America

aticama 2009-09-02T04:56:00Z tpierce2 2009-09-02T04:38:24Z 2009-09-02T04:38:24Z

GWYN, I agree with your post up to the point where you want to keep McCain. Then sadly I have to agree with Knapp. McCain in not conservative. He is a "moderate" Republican. That is he is a RINO. I held my nose and voted for him because Sara Palin entered the race. Until her entry I was torn between voting for him and sitting out the race. It would have been the first time in a kazillion years that I did not vote for a President. Well, Sara entered, she ignited a large chuck of the Conservative base like me and I voted. Many Republicans sat it out. Hence, Obama! Moderate, liberal Republicans, RINO's, whatever you want to call them, they will not win elections. They are too much like Democrats. Good post---except McCain. Keep posting. That is just my opinion.

tpierce2 2009-09-02T04:38:24Z tpierce2 2009-09-02T04:25:00Z 2009-09-02T04:25:00Z

Aticama, thanks for your explanation and history. What a sad story. If I understood it correctly your wife is in Mexico and she can't come back because of American law? And you are an American citizen? Is that correct? Is there any way you can get her back here and not have to wait 10 years? Can any elected politicians help you? That is one of the reasons they are elected and part of their job. If we citizens have a problem with bone headed government they are supposed to be there to assist. Regarding you post about the liberal writer above: Most liberals don't get it yet and most politicians that are liberal don't get it. You were at the Tea Party. You and I and others on this board saw the make up of crowd and if you follow t.v., mostly Fox, and you watch the rally's you will see that these are real authentic Americans defending our country. We are not scripted, we are real and we are concerned for our country. We are tired of intrusive, out of control government. I've been to 4 tea parties. These are real people, not paid, not scripted. We are just fed up. Take care. I wish I could say I could help but don't know what I could do. I am just starting to get involved into politics in an active way. This administration, and prior administrations have really made a mess of almost everything they touched. Keep posting. God Bless American and our people.

tpierce2 2009-09-02T04:25:00Z Jim Knapp 2009-09-02T03:13:12Z 2009-09-02T03:13:12Z

"except John McCain"... ha ha ha ha ha ha ha that's funny... Republican neo-conservatives are more to blame for our current situation than the Democrats. If it was not for Bush, corporatist, Oil companies, PNAC and AIPAC..Obama would not have gotten anywhere near the White House. Republicans can blame themselves for blindly following the GOP. Bush and his crew are not conservative by any means... just like Clinton was NO Liberal... and now Obama follows in their footsteps...giving TRILLIONS of dollars to Bankers and Corporations... This country is controlled by a corporate oligarchy, which is not based on capitalism or a Free Market... The last thing the corporate heads in this country want is a Free Market. The Oligarchs screwed up America and drove it's citizens like cattle into the open arms of the Great Leader. While you Republicans scream about "losing our country" and "socialism" Obama is pumping Trillions into corporations. But for those in the GOP Corporations = Capitalism...morons, you just don't get it. I also find it hilarious that Liberals support what Obama is doing....maybe they are too blinded by the thoughts of free government cheese and free health care... In the end..the corporations will get richer, and the moronic masses will pay the price.

Jim Knapp 2009-09-02T03:13:12Z gwyn 2009-09-01T22:04:13Z 2009-09-01T22:04:13Z

GO GO GO I believe in what you are doing. We value our freedom in this country and as one person was quoted, Obama is trying to destroy our freedom. He has NO business trying to control our internet. This is not China. We need to impeach Obama and vote out every congressman there is except John McCain and those who believe in our founding fathers believf system. GF

gwyn 2009-09-01T22:04:13Z aticama 2009-09-01T18:21:41Z 2009-09-01T18:21:41Z

Here is a post made on April 1 of this year by our author Raoul. Now my assumptions of him have been proven correct, he is a rep from the liberal media, and it appears that his mind was made up before he even attended the rally. But I still attend that this article could have been a lot worse. The fact that Raouls mind was already made up casts him as a bias reporter, and thus makes everything he writes suspect. Whatever happened to open minded journalism in America? Because of his bias, his observations are tainted, and this is why the one-sided reporting, he is incapable of giving an honest objective report of what happened at this rally. Too bad, he is a good writer. “I have the feeling that these 'tea party' events are attended mostly by republicans bitter about Obama's election. Not all, but most. Perusing their websites, you see a lot of references to 'the liberal media,' and links to republican websites. Lots of pictures of Ronald Reagan, too. Hardly a paragon of fiscal responsibility or laissez-faire capitalism. Also, on what purports to be the official website, you can see an excited notice that Sean Hannity will be attending one of their events. I'm still interested in going to this though, at the very least just to see if my assumptions have any truth to them.” http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/5259/TAX_DAY_TEA_PARTY_IN_SACRAMENTO God Bless America

aticama 2009-09-01T18:21:41Z aticama 2009-09-01T17:42:20Z 2009-09-01T17:42:20Z

Dear Mr. Pin-Head (aka Jim Knapp) So you agree that the government should put 40,000 people out of work by implementing an ordinance to protect a species that is failing despite their efforts. Very American and compassionate. What I have to ask you is why we should take you seriously? Is that picture supposed to be you saving use from the terrorist hordes, or is that just another lie. It appears that you are not who you say you are, just a common fraud. Who r u Mr. Pin-Head, just another heckler. To find out what a fraud Jim Knapp is fallow the link below, he is not even registered under his own name and the admin of this site has asked him to please do so. In fact he posted an article he did not write. Disregard the troll. http://www.sacramentopress.com/headline/5259/TAX_DAY_TEA_PARTY_IN_SACRAMENTO God Bless America

aticama 2009-09-01T17:42:20Z aticama 2009-09-01T16:02:14Z 2009-09-01T16:02:14Z

Aticama is a small fishing village on the Pacific west central coast of Mexico in the State of Nayarit where I lived for about 10 years. I would still be there if it was not for the fact that in 2000 I had to have a heart transplant and they killed my immune system to the point that I cannot fight off the normal germs that exist in the jungle that surrounds my wife’s home. We live very indigenously down there. I tried to go back after the first year when they released me to travel out of the Sacto. area, but after 8 months in the jungle I was just about dead, and barely made it to Tucson and the heart hospital there. I just came back from Nogales, Sonora, Mexico where I was going to bring my wife across the border illegally. You see, they have pass a new immigration regulation were the husband or wife or children of an American citizen cannot get a tourist visa to visit their loved ones in the US even if they are in the hospital dying. If anyone can make me understand that I will give them $1000. People think that every person that comes to the US wants to live here, and that is just not so. The circumstance was just too dangerous in Nogales and she would have to walk through the desert for about 8 hours and I would not let her do it. I will now have to lie cheat and do whatever it is necessary to get her here another way. I can try the k3 visa, but she has to be sponsored for 10 years, and because of my disability I make $400. a year short of the money necessary to sponsor my own wife here. Most people just do not understand anything about why we are having this immigration problem, but I have studied it for years. The government is the problem here, they can change it but it is a HUGE cash cow for them, so they will not. If they wish to make a federal felon out of me because I wish to spend the last few years of my life with my wife, then they will succeed. What happened to my right to the pursuit of happiness, or does that only apply if you are married to a white American? God Bless America

aticama 2009-09-01T16:02:14Z Jim Knapp 2009-09-01T06:30:21Z 2009-09-01T06:30:21Z

"I don't give a damn about those fish" .. well they don't care about you either... but the fish that feed off them do care. What an imbecile.

Jim Knapp 2009-09-01T06:30:21Z tpierce2 2009-09-01T04:50:28Z 2009-09-01T04:50:28Z

Aticama, your above post is one of the best I've read. You nailed the abuse of government. Being a curious guy, what does your handle stand for? I am not a real imaginative guy so I use a simple handle. Great post. Great background information. I am totally impressed.

tpierce2 2009-09-01T04:50:28Z aticama 2009-08-31T20:26:08Z 2009-08-31T20:26:08Z

Mr. Smith. Unfortunately they do not have to debate and the reason for this you so apply explained. The guy making to rules does not know what he is doing because of a lack of background. They will not debate because they know they do not have an answer. I would like to tell you a short story that happened to me a few years back. I was mentoring a young Persian lad in business and he wanted to go to China to buy product to import into the US. I just happened to have a friend in China running a jewelry factory for some people on the coast. He had run my jewelry factory in Rancho Cordova for me back in the last 70es, and was very astute. I contacted him and he told us when to go over for the big trade show in Canton. We went to the show and among the products my young friend bought was a container full of hammers. All kinds if hammers, axes, splitting mall, and sludge hammers. He paid for them and they were delivered in Oakland. We went down and paid the duties and arranged to have them delivered to his warehouse in South Sac. He bought them at a good price and passed it on to his customers and they sold like hot cakes. After 5 months and when he was only in possession of about 15% of the shipment he received a letter from the Customs Department that he had to pay an additional six thousand bucks in Anti-Dumping Fees. Well this would have put him in a negative balance on the purchase, so he called me. I had never heard of such a thing and began to investigate. Well it appears that the US Customs Department can look at you invoice and make the determination if you have paid to little for a product and fine you accordingly. What they had done was figured out his duties when the product came in and set a duty on it, and my feeling was they had their chance at that time. Coming back later after he had sold the product and adding on an additional fine was not fair. It they had told him at the first he could have adjusted his price and made a few bucks. Then I started to read the law and it appeared that over 3\4 of the shipment was not covered because of a weight restriction on the hammers heads. The law pertains to hammers that were over 2 lb., and the vast portion of the shipment was carpenter hammers from 12oz to 18oz. We prepared and went to SF for the hearing. Two people walked into the conference room looking grim and handing us their cards that said they were Import Specialist. They started in on the young lad as if he was a criminal before he stopped them and informed them that I would be handling this matter. I asked them to please tell me about this Anti Dumping Fee regulation and how it all came about, and they did. Then I asked them to please read the portion of the law that pertained to this case so I would know if I had come to the right conclusion or not. After they went over it I informed that that 82% of his shipment was not covered by this regulation because it pertained to hammer head weight of over 2 lbs. I pulled out all of the hammers that we exempt along with the invoice and pointed them out to them. They sat there for 30 minutes arguing with each other over whether they should cut the handles off before they weighed the hammers or not. They did not know. Finally I cut in and said “Look, the cards you gave us said Import Specialist on them and you do not even know how to handle this problem. How do you expect my young friend here to know? The regulation says hammer heads, not hammer head and handle. Come on Hamid, let’s go. When you folks get it together send us a bill.” And we walked out. What I am getting at Mr. Smith is that these people do not know what they are doing other then they are supposed to take our money. That is why they avoid debate. Buy the way, about two months later Hamid got a letter stating that he was going to be excused because it was his first infraction. They are probably rewriting the regulation to include the handle. These small minded people are in the position of destroying businesses and families and in so doing assure themselves a nitch in the bureaucratic chain. This is the fat I want to cut. God Bless America

aticama 2009-08-31T20:26:08Z csmith 2009-08-31T15:18:05Z 2009-08-31T15:18:05Z

Aticama I still agree with you, I just wish CARB would be up for a open and HONEST debate of their regulations. Then they might realize they were not needed and I could keep my truck. Good luck and good work on the fuel cell. I do not know much about the tea party but I came to the event just to protest CARB, and no I am not anybodies plant.

csmith 2009-08-31T15:18:05Z aticama 2009-08-31T06:39:23Z 2009-08-31T06:39:23Z

Yes, I did say they were plants, and I still believe that. But I did not call them dithering democratic dunderheads, which is an equivalent to what you referred to us as and still have not shown the decency to apologize for. I also did not see any of these statements pointed at the author, except by you just now. I think he did as good a job as we are going to get from the liberal press. As to banter, I will not banter with you, I think you are a jerk. It is funny that you picked out all the people that thought the rally was a success, or is it? So please save your platitudes for someone who cares. God Bless America

aticama 2009-08-31T06:39:23Z aticama 2009-08-31T05:47:33Z 2009-08-31T05:47:33Z

Farm subsidies were part of FDR's New Deal that started to take shape in 1933. It was the democrats that started farm subsidies. It appears by some of the latest quotes that both the AFB and the NFU are both pushing for more subsidies. "Farm lobbyists say the year is young.”If we don't get disaster assistance now, we'll get it before the election," says Mary Kay Thatcher of the American Farm Bureau. Still, National Farmers Union president Tom Buis is concerned by the opposition. "Rural America needs to wake up," he says." Big farming as you state it only amounts to 5% of the industry for farmer that earn up to $499,999.00 a year. For farmers that earn over $500,000.00 a year it drops to 2%. So if subsidies are working they are working for the vast majority of small farmers, not just big as you would have us believe. Size varies from farm to farm, not state to state. "Model results support the hypotheses and show that lobbying expenditure in output markets is statistically significant, and that political campaign contributions to the Democratic Party significantly correlate with agribusiness firms' profits.” Logic dictates to me that the democratic farmers would be paying off the democratic politicians in their area, not the republican. And being that the house and senate are democratically owned, they are the ones taking the money. I cannot find any information that substantiates your statement that the large farmers are mostly Republicans. What I am finding is that they are just like all American Businesses, mixed. If you can point me to a study that shows that big farmers are Republicans, and not a mix, please do. Please do not make references like: “you’re fellow Republicans.” That is an ignorant assumption on your part and shows your bias. I am not a republican at all, I am a constrictive republican socialist separatist, and that is far from a republican. But most of all I am an American. An Astroturfing American at that. I think this is just more of you disinformation or is this like a Hilary thing and you just "miss-spoke", not purposely lied? Or are you just uninformed? "Now, which government (federal, state, county or city) and which agencies to you want to abolish to achieve a small government? How and which governments have abused you? You definitely talk the party line with general accusations but no substance" I want to cut the fat off of all the above! They have all abused me. Now, what party is that? Your substance is not fact, it is contrived. God Bless America http://ideas.repec.org/p/ags/eaae02/24855.html http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2007/Full_Report/usv1.pdf http://www.epa.gov/oecaagct/ag101/demographics.html http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publications/2007/Full_Report/usv1.pdf http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-07-farm-subsidies_x.htm

aticama 2009-08-31T05:47:33Z tpierce2 2009-08-31T05:06:08Z 2009-08-31T05:06:08Z

We are not plants. I've never been to a politically rally in my life prior to the Tea Parties. Most of my friends are the same. I take time from work, at my own expense, to attend these events. This country is going in the wrong direction in my opinion. Otherwise, I would be at work. And fishing on weekends instead of attending political events. I don't really like standing out at events with the temperatures around 100 degrees and high humidity. Not my idea of a great day. I consider it a necessary day for our country. Yea, I attended the Sacramento Tea Party event. The first and second. And others that will follow. This country is going toward Socialism, perhaps worse.

tpierce2 2009-08-31T05:06:08Z tpierce2 2009-08-31T04:54:03Z 2009-08-31T04:54:03Z

Thanks for you comments and background. We all have different life experiences. We are all Americans. Great!

tpierce2 2009-08-31T04:54:03Z tpierce2 2009-08-31T04:44:06Z 2009-08-31T04:44:06Z

Hey, this is a great board and the responses are great. I am conservative, afraid for my country, for your country, under this administration. Most of the people I've seen are real and genuine. Personally, I am scared for our country. I've never been an activist. I always voted and thought that was my duty. Well, I need to do more. We are Americans. The Constitution is our guide. My friends and associates are afraid for our country and I'm not ashamed to say so. We care about the United States and will defend it. Totally. I don't know how many of you feel this way. This is our country. Period.!!!

tpierce2 2009-08-31T04:44:06Z tpierce2 2009-08-31T03:53:50Z 2009-08-31T03:53:50Z

Bill, read your reply. In part: "If you are insulted, then maybe you should consider your audience before insulting other commenters and the author of the story." I took into account the responses and responded. In my opinion yours and others were not accurate regarding the Tea Party. If my audience are liberal so be it. If you are a lib ok. Just don't tell me how I should respond to and audience. I can respond any way I want and you and others were wrong about the Tea Party. I and others were there. Apparently you were not at the Tea Party. Apparently others left early. I attended most of the event. As did others on this board. I have a couple of words that you won't like. Screw you liberals. I've heard enough over the years to realize what a danger you are to our country. You don't own these boards. You don't own me. You don't own other posters on this board that express an opinion different than liberalism. We can all post, all debate, but no bs. I consider you liberals a clear and present danger to this country. If you disagree tell me why. I'll be happy to debate your policies any time. I've learned that you guys have no ideas and no substance regarding policy and truth. So bring on the debate. The Tea Party was a very fine event. Why don't you attend one with an open mind? If you have one.

tpierce2 2009-08-31T03:53:50Z Raoul Kleven 2009-08-31T00:47:51Z 2009-08-31T00:47:51Z

I'd wager that most of the people attending the Tea Parties aren't plants. Sure, some probably are, but there are enough people who sincerely hold Tea Party beliefs to make up a fair-sized crowd without any kind of dishonesty in that respect. I agree with the basic idea of the Tea Party rallies, fiscal responsibility and that, but frankly some of the rhetoric displayed there is a little off-putting and scary. It seems like a lot of the people holding signs about socialism, communism, and fascism don't quite know the definitions of each. For example, I saw one sign which said 'It's worse than socialism, it's Marxism.' I'm not quite sure what message that one is supposed to be getting across. If you were to ask a real, doctrinaire communist, they would probably disagree almost as vehemently with Obama's policies as any attendee of the Tea Party rallies. For different reasons, but the point is still worth making. And while anger at political leaders is perfectly normal and probably deserved, the level of what I have to call hatred and vitriol at these events has been scary. On several occasions while I was in the crowd I heard people talking loudly about killing democratic politicians and other 'communists.' No one even batted an eyelash, and I doubt they were speaking ironically or making jokes. So I guess what I'm saying is that the basic idea of the Tea Parties is a good one, but there does seem to be a lot of unpleasantness collecting around them. PS: I've just been talking to an acquaintance who used to work on a farm, and he is of the opinion that the whole water problem could have been solved by the farms in the valley adopting more efficient irrigation methods ten or fifteen years ago. Hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps some similar changes should be made now? I don't claim to know much about agriculture, though.

Raoul Kleven 2009-08-31T00:47:51Z Raoul Kleven 2009-08-31T00:31:23Z 2009-08-31T00:31:23Z

Yeah, I talked to the public info officer for the CHP. He gave me that number around 1:30 in the afternoon. I can contact the tech guy for the sacpress and see if he'll change it to a different figure. It does seem like 1500 wasn't accurate, based on all the other reports I've been seeing.

Raoul Kleven 2009-08-31T00:31:23Z aticama 2009-08-31T00:11:16Z 2009-08-31T00:11:16Z

Mr. Smith I am sure that we will not agree on a few things. That is what makes us Beings. Being Human is what makes us all alike; the path we walk is what makes us differ, the Beings part. Human Beings, or alike but different. I am sure that my view on the illegal immigration problem, having been closely involved in it for many years, is far different than yours. But we are both entitled to that opinion, and the right to express it. I grew up in downtown LA in the 40’s and 50’s, Echo Park area, and I can remember when we had our first smog alert and I was not allowed to go to school or go outside to play. Not going to school was ok, but not being able to go outside was a pisser. I have see CARB type regulations all my life, and I was just through LA a few weeks back coming home from Nogales, Sonora, Mexico. Guess what. LA is still the pits. From personal experience over a long period of time I can see no improvement. How about others? I have done some messing with hho gas production and believe the answer is there somewhere. I own a 1973 Lincoln Continental Mark IV that I have a small hydrogen cell on. It does not have to be smog tested, but I did a before and after and the difference is astounding. On my trip to Nogales and back it got over 26 mpg and ran like a champ. I cannot say how much of a MPG improvement there was because I never did a before. What I can attest to is the difference in hydro carbon admissions from the lead sled improving drastically. But that is too much like magic for the government to get involved in. I am getting ready to build a bigger unit to mount in my trunk at this time. This is way off subject, and I apologize. God Bless America

aticama 2009-08-31T00:11:16Z csmith 2009-08-30T19:31:11Z 2009-08-30T19:31:11Z

I agree with aticama on one thing we all have the right to debate the issues, I wish CARB would debate their "Diesel Rules" Now that more information has come to light from scientists,EPA studies, also questionable actions by CARB, ie The lead author and project coordainator for the Diesel Rule has a mail order Phd. Also CARB went to Oakland Schools to talk about dirty diesel trucks (can we say indoctinization). Also what is the cost benefit, The air will get cleaner even if we do nothing because new trucks are cleaner burning, just not as fuel efficent

csmith 2009-08-30T19:31:11Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T19:20:54Z 2009-08-30T19:20:54Z

Aticama, I intend to go to everyone I can. This is my 4th or 5t one. The two in Sacramento and several smaller ones. I truly enjoy the message, the messengers and the people. I learn something new about government every event attended. The more I learn the more disgusted I become and the more I realize we need to truly change the way we look at government. In my opinion, nothing less than our Freedom is at stake. We need to get involved and events like the Tea Parties are a great starting point. Like you, if someone wants to label me as Astroturfing then so be it. No more will I be part of the silent majority or succumb to political correctness. We are Americans, I'm damn proud of it and not afraid to say it. If it makes some people feel uncomfortable to hear it that is their problem. Not mine. We need a greater showing of Patriotism. Not less. Yes, if possible I will be at the next event.

tpierce2 2009-08-30T19:20:54Z Bill Albertson 2009-08-30T19:16:03Z 2009-08-30T19:16:03Z

My comment had to do with you casting aspersions as to whether someone was a plant on this thread. I've been on plenty of story sites where paid commmenters come in and act like they are locals or like they are active in the community, including banding together, bantering with one another on the boards, only to disappear once their issue disappears. Your account activity and commentary fit the profile, and since YOU brought up the issue of "plants", I thought people should know who was new here, and who wasn't. If you are insulted, then maybe you should consider your audience before insulting other commenters and the author of the story. If I was wrong about you and others being plants, then I apologize. I hope to see comments by you in other stories and welcome your reasoned and polite input.

Bill Albertson 2009-08-30T19:16:03Z advocate 2009-08-30T18:38:41Z 2009-08-30T18:38:41Z

Thanks for the clarification Bill. Pierce: Read again, I never blamed farmers. I don't agree with subsidies to CORPORATE (the ones you defend) growers either. Growing up on a small farm and working hard in the fields from age 10, I find you fail to distinguish between small farmers and big growers--the size of the operations varying from state to state. Most of the big guys are your fellow Republicans. Talk about uniformed, you don't know that apparently.. Farm subsidies began in the 1930-40's to help the small farmers throughout the country who were going broke at the mercy of the weather and commodities market. National Farmers Organization represented the small farmer. The Farm Bureau represented Republican big farmers. At the lobbying of BIG agribusiness, the subsidies covered them too. If you want to blame government for creating subsidies, blame the politicians who responded to meet a need and then swept in the corporate farmers at THEIR demand through campaign contributions. Talk about uniformed, you don't know that either. Now, which government (federal, state, county or city) and which agencies to you want to abolish to achieve a small government? How and which governments have abused you? You definitely talk the party line with general accusations but no substance.

advocate 2009-08-30T18:38:41Z aticama 2009-08-30T17:46:29Z 2009-08-30T17:46:29Z

Billy Boy, I see. Being "part of the community" gives you a special insight into a rally you admittedly did not attend. My bad. All hale the chosen few, the gifted orators, and the smug sideliners. Yes, the astroterfers thing was not called for, but that is why we are here, so people can hear from other then the liberal left. If you are such a great fan of the lady, how about paying for her next trip home so you can be close to her. I see you are about 41, some guys like older women. One thing I do have to express as a disappointment is this. After reading other estimations of attendance, I have to say that overall attendants could have run as high as 15 16 thousand. Now I am not saying they were all there at the same time, but with the going and coming that many people attended at different times. This is always the case at rallies like this. People can only allocate part of their time to attend because of other commitments. My disappointment was with the fact that there were not enough people of different ethnic backgrounds. I was also disappointed in the number of young people that attended, we have to get the youth involved with a youth movement. I would say that the average age of the people there was in the middle-late 40’s and mostly white. We need more diversity, but that will come with the understanding that they are welcome. I believe that the liberal press is painting this movement as being a white conservative movement to drive off the democrats and people of color. I know a lot of Mexicans and I am talking to them like a tio Duchlandia to get them involved. I did like the statement by the black singer that opened the show. It went something like this. “I am black and I am American, I am not a black American, I am an American." That is not an exact quote, but it is close enough. He was making the statement as I was walking in, and I did not get his name. I did get his picture and I will contact Mark Meckler to get it so I can put it on my website. But that is what the tea party has been about. Americans without labels, well everywhere but here were as Billy the “A” so apply points out he should have said, just to be politically correct, that he was an Astroturfing American. Hell, Billy, if that is what you want to call me, I’ll go for it. I am a Astroturfing American, and I am proud of it! Tpierce2, will you go to another? I will because I was very pleased at what I experienced, and have to say it was a revelation. All this BS about it being full of angry pissed off conservatives is such a bunch of bunk. So if you go take some friends, that is how it grows, through recommendation and word of mouth. God Bless America

aticama 2009-08-30T17:46:29Z AyatollahGondola 2009-08-30T17:44:47Z 2009-08-30T17:44:47Z

Mr Pierce, I have no doubt that smaller farmers are being injured. I also have no doubt that if we appease them by giving in to the water lobby, they will still be injured and probably a lot more. The people behind the water grab are just greedy and power mongering, and are using these small guys to achieve public approval. They certainly wouldn't stand out there themselves because it wouldn't earn them a bit of sympathy. I understand the problem, as I have lost most of everything too, but I know when to quit playing into the hands of those that mean to hurt or enslave me. Interesting to note that these interests are the same ones that keep attracting more and more families here to suffer under such terrible conditions. They want voters and consumers that will buy their products and support their enterprises, plain and simple. Also interesting to note this bit of forgotten truth: Where was the outcry for families, lost revenues, and failing businesses when it was the fishermen just a few years ago? I can tell you this; They did not have a big money'd political backer to help them organize and toss a party like this. The truth is, those backers want to kill all the fish and make the whole delta irrelevant to anything other than agribusiness. They will still kill the small farmer off. They're just a tool right now

AyatollahGondola 2009-08-30T17:44:47Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T17:00:10Z 2009-08-30T17:00:10Z

Ayatollah, I grant you that when you have corrupt big business and corrupt big government plotting together we have a huge problem. Having said that, I would bet that many of the people being hurt by the insane action of cutting off water are not associated with big business. They are probably many small farmers and their workers. I listened to the logger at the Tea Party. He was not big business. I'm not sure about the person that spoke for the farmers but I don't think he was big business. The "hard working families you keep waving" are just that. Hard working families. If their are legal they deserve better treatment than the pain inflicted upon them by government. Demonizing all farmers and bankers does not make sense. Farmers grow our food. Bankers keep the money flowing. I work in the arena of finance and I can tell you that from my observation that banks are not lending yet. Am I going to blame all bankers? The answer is no. I blame the government mostly. I think the banking community is afraid of the regulators from government and from the uncertainty in the market. The Presidents programs are not working. Confidence and stability is not happening. Once again, failed government. Subsidies, sure, I'll agree with you there. I'm more of a free market type and don't believe government should be giving tax payer money to prop up business. Including cash for clunkers and thousands of other give away programs.

tpierce2 2009-08-30T17:00:10Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T16:32:24Z 2009-08-30T16:32:24Z

Bill, thanks for your comment but I did not see in the terms of use and agreement that I had to go through a probation period or become "part of the community" prior to posting. This forum was/is about the Tea Party. I was there and know what I saw. Some of the comments do not square away with my observations so exercising my rights, I disagreed. "You need to work on your banter and astroturfing scripts a bit." I find this comment from you very insulting. I believe one of the biggest whack jobs in politics, Nancy Pelosi, used that term to describe town hall meeting. If I was you I would avoid associating myself with disgusting woman via language or any other way. Just a thought. OK?

tpierce2 2009-08-30T16:32:24Z AyatollahGondola 2009-08-30T15:01:51Z 2009-08-30T15:01:51Z

I think you're a plant, but that's irrelevant. I;d wager a bet that about half of the hard working families you keep waving in this argument are, or were migrants that big government proponents, developers, and wishful thinking politicians are doing everything possible to keep anchored in the area for their own greedy purposes. You keep saying you want to end big government, but farmers are the biggest tick sucking on that teet next to bankers. You want to convince me you're serious about ending government intrusion, you'll have to first let me see you at the forefront of ending all subsidides to farmers, their labor pool, and their water. Right now I just see baby waving in a pathetic effort to get the goods

AyatollahGondola 2009-08-30T15:01:51Z Bill Albertson 2009-08-30T08:42:34Z 2009-08-30T08:42:34Z

Actually, advocate has had an account with activity on sacpress prior to today- unlike yourself (tpierce2), aticama, czfuller, and artsydee47. You need to work on your banter and astroturfing scripts a bit, maybe appear to be involved in the community (other than mentioning the Bee), before you start casting aspersions as to who is a "plant", ok?

Bill Albertson 2009-08-30T08:42:34Z aticama 2009-08-30T06:48:50Z 2009-08-30T06:48:50Z

Aya. Your logic reflects that you are a non-thinker. Let’s fallow it through. Let’s move the 40,000 out of the valley, but if we do that why not cut off the water to LA also, as it could be sent down the river to save the fish. So how many people will we have to displace to save your fish? Also the water diverted from the Colorado is cousin harsh changes in the Sea Of Cortez, well, there goes San Diego. Displacing 40,000 families to save a fish that is failing anyway. Will you give up your home, or how about just letting one of the families move in with you? Or is that asking too much? As I said before, do your homework. The fish that they are trying to save are depleting despite this disastrous move. So the putting out of work of 40,000 people is just a waste. But you will never understand this as you do not wish to. All you want to do is try to run down the good people who are doing something. They scare you, don’t they? Try educating yourselves and not just run off at the mouth. Read this article and you may learn something. The experts disagree with you. The project is a failure. People are more important. You talk about subsidies being bad, well, get ready, because of this move they will be giving more of your money to the people in federal aid. Lost farm revenue will top $900 million in the San Joaquin Valley this year, said UC Davis economist Richard Howitt, who estimates that water woes will cost the recession-battered region an additional 30,000 jobs in 2009. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger last month asked President Obama to declare Fresno County a disaster area to boost federal aid. http://devinnunes.blogspot.com/2009/08/its-fish-versus-farmers-in-san-joaquin.html Tpierce2, you are right, they are both plants. The state is going to lose lots of money that we desperately need, tens of thousands of people are going to lose jobs, and soup lines will get longer. But hell fire, let’s not kill some smelt. What kills me is that they did not even know what kind of fish were endangered and by their own admittance did not attend the rally. HAHAHAHAHAHAH. Dupes. Artsydee47, good for you and your girlfriends. That is true American Spirit. God Bless America.

aticama 2009-08-30T06:48:50Z Marion Millin 2009-08-30T06:15:57Z 2009-08-30T06:15:57Z

Or, William, it's just a hip factor thing. Like Thom Hartmann says, "Libertarians are Republicans who want to smoke pot." JimKnapp has all the arbitrary terms sorted out in his mind and knows "the Republican Party will not be the savior of our state. If there is any way to save our state from complete ruin, it will come from centrist Independents." Whoever they are. Republican Lite Lite?

Marion Millin 2009-08-30T06:15:57Z William Burg 2009-08-30T06:05:37Z 2009-08-30T06:05:37Z

Marion: Remember, left and right are relative positions. Jim Knapp thinks the Republicans are too liberal...although he also thinks Hitler was too liberal. So it's mostly a matter of degree.

William Burg 2009-08-30T06:05:37Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T03:56:23Z 2009-08-30T03:56:23Z

Ok, I got it advocate. You ARE one of the enemy. You blame corporations. You twist the logic. You blame the farmers. They have been farming for years and years. Now government cuts them off the life blood that allows them to be responsible and be good citizens. Government! For a stupid fish. I don't agree with subsidies. Again, government programs. I read the Bee as little as possible but I did read about the Tea Party because I attended the event---as usual. If they get 50% right or do a decent job of reporting it---that is a good day for the Bee. The only pictures they printed were of farm workers or farm owners. They did a reasonable job of reporting. But as usual, it was about 1/2 of what the event was about. Advocate, are you a liberal, a plant or an uninformed citizen? I am a conservative Republican and damn proud of it. I suspect you are a plant. Advocate, I don't give a damn about those fish. I care about the people who work hard, who have families to raise and educate and care for. They have responsibilities and lives and government policy is destroying this group of humans. This has to stop. We, as a nation, correct our mistakes. We are the most giving nation on earth and our citizens are the most generous on the face of the earth. We, the people, do not deserve to be abused by government. Remember advocate, the government created the subsidies to farmers. Get government off our backs and out of our lives.

tpierce2 2009-08-30T03:56:23Z AyatollahGondola 2009-08-30T03:15:33Z 2009-08-30T03:15:33Z

40,000 families just need to move where the water is instead of causing the whole state to cater to them. That's big government for you. Bait fish are only a part of the whole aquaculture system. Each one we kill off often takes some above it. I've seen the farmers up close. They require big subsidies from big government, one after another. Farm bills in congress and aid from the state to support the migrants who...surprise, surprise, don't actually migrate back anymore. We've been subsidizing their labor via food stamps, WIC, and welfare for decades now. Truth is, farming is as much a product of big government than anything I know of, and is one of the biggest scams perpetrated upon the taxpayers of this state and the union. The fish were here long before farmers, fed people longer, and did it without subsidized water, labor, and land. Farmers would see us all dependent upon them and killing the fish runs would just about doom us all to that just as killing all the buffalo made us dependent upon beef ranches.

AyatollahGondola 2009-08-30T03:15:33Z advocate 2009-08-30T03:07:05Z 2009-08-30T03:07:05Z

Where are the distortions? I read and quotedthe sacpress article (which you ignore) and other articles as well. I saw the extremists' behavior as photographed at the town halls where they disrupted and shouted down anyone who wanted to ask a reasonable question. That was the strategy promoted right out of the Armey publication. I saw the many other tea party anti free speech extreme tactics. You are concerned about Pelosi, why were you and the tea party folks not concerned about the Clinton trillion dollar budget surplus that the Bush tax cuts to the wealthy turned in a deficit? Apparently the tea party people were not mad at Bush's illegal war when the U.S. invaded a nation that posed no threat to us while letting terrorism get a solid footing in a nation where bin Laden was and is still hiding? tpierce 2: I agree that there is far too much corruption. It started when corporations realized that they could buy politicians with Reagan among them. Remember when the concept of public funding of campaigns was introduced to head off root cause: funding of campaigns by special interests like drug, various insurance companies and other corporate interests? The general public objected to cutting off that avenue. Go after that and you'll have my support. Sorry but I don't believe in these updated and distorted versions of the tea parties--they are not any way like the ones I read about in history that preceded the American Revolution. These folks now don't believe in freedom for all--just want their own way.

advocate 2009-08-30T03:07:05Z Jim Knapp 2009-08-30T02:56:23Z 2009-08-30T02:56:23Z

The GOP supports illegal immigration, so what is your point?

Jim Knapp 2009-08-30T02:56:23Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T02:53:27Z 2009-08-30T02:53:27Z

Hey, atta girl!

tpierce2 2009-08-30T02:53:27Z Jim Knapp 2009-08-30T02:52:36Z 2009-08-30T02:52:36Z

Last time I checked the Governor of this state for the last 7 years has been a Republican. As Governor, he outspent the disgraced Gray Davis. If it were not for Republican votes, the budgets would not have passed. Freedom and Liberty are not the sole dominion of the Republican Party. Many Democrats still believe in America, as do Independents. The Republican Party has become all but extinct in California politics, and deservedly so. They have nothing to offer. Neo-Liberals, Leftists, statists, unionists and socialists have seized control of the Democratic Party and our state, but the Republican Party will not be the savior of our state. If there is any way to save our state from complete ruin, it will come from centrist Independents.

Jim Knapp 2009-08-30T02:52:36Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T02:51:17Z 2009-08-30T02:51:17Z

Good post. I also live in Folsom and you are correct about the water. Lack of water is a canard. Extreme environmentalism is a religion bent on destroying us. Again, look what they are doing to the farmers. It doesn't bother me that they are big / corporate farmers or smaller farmers. They have no water, the people are un-employed and business is being destroyed by a bait fish. Real live people with families are being badly hurt. This is totally Un-American! Yes, government is the problem. Do you think there might be current government loving people posting on this site? People afraid to disclose their true beliefs? People wanting to criticize the Tea Party and participants? People wanting to create doubt? Naw, that wold be "like the current government." Deception. Again, good post and you are correct. In my humble opinion.

tpierce2 2009-08-30T02:51:17Z artsydee47 2009-08-30T02:35:44Z 2009-08-30T02:35:44Z

THE TRUTH IS WE A JUST PEOPLE WHO ARE FED UP WITH SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS HIJACKING OUR GOVERNMENT AND USING OUR TAX DOLLARS TO PAY FOR IT. I AM A 62YR OLD GRANDMOTHER AND I LIVE ON $719. DOLLARS A MONTH BUT I AM IN MY 16YR OLD MINI VAN WITH SOME FRIENDS, TWO OF WHICH ARE DEMOCRATS TO FOLLOW THIS TOUR. WE ARE VERY PEE PEED OFF( OBAMAS PEOPLE ARE WEE WEED UP, HIS WORDS) AND WE WILL MAKE OUR VOCIES HEARD AT THE NEXT ELECTION.

artsydee47 2009-08-30T02:35:44Z tpierce2 2009-08-30T02:03:33Z 2009-08-30T02:03:33Z

Too damn big & corrupt as hell! Hey advocate, if you are a freedom loving guy and you believe in the Constitution and the basic idea of the Tea Party lets work together. The enemy is not us. The enemy is government as currently structured. Squabbling over small points detracts from the goal of correcting the mess this state is in and the USA in general. Me, I don't take the messages as distorted or inflammatory. However, inflammatory is good. We need a little passion and rabble rousing to attract the attention of the brain dead politicians that forgot they work for us and are accountable to us. Speaking for myself, I am scared and angry as hell at what the politicians have done to us in the last 40 + years. I know many feel like me. It is time for a real change. Back to the basics. Back to the Constitution as written.

tpierce2 2009-08-30T02:03:33Z aticama 2009-08-30T00:58:55Z 2009-08-30T00:58:55Z

The fish that the water is being diverted for is not edible fish, unless you like bait fish and killer whales to eat. Please do more research. But if they were edible fish are they worth destroying this state’s valuable farm land for and putting 40,000 Americans out of work? Studies are showing that despite the diversion of the water the delta smelt are still disappearing. So, you would have the people out of work, their children hungry, to make yourself feel all warm inside supporting a failed project. You have a right to say they are worth it; I have a right to find you a dunce hat. Please, the disinformation about the people behind the farmers and workers that were at the rally being the local developers is not making you any points. I have to ask if you bothered to talk to those folks. The question is would there be a drought if we were not dumping all that water. I have read that the reservoirs were running at 95% capacity before we started dumping the water. I live about 4 blocks from Folsom and nimbus lakes here in the sac area, and the lakes was higher this year then for many years. The Tea Parties were instituted to solve Americans problems, and farmers are Americans. So what part of the population would you like to restrict the movement to, your part? What is the main agenda if it is not about ALL Americans? Yes. I heard the call government is the problem. Because Government is the problem. Government has become big and out of control, catering to the special interest and fish, not the people. Why does Nancy Pelosi need a huge jet run at our expense? She was not happy with the small private jet that comes with the job; she had to have a 200 seat jet that will get her back here to Cal every weekend non-stop at your expense (annual cost of about $5,760,000 to go home and back to work.). At least Jerry Brown drove a Plymouth and lived in an apartment he paid for. As to the no more government, well what I heard was no more big government. So, you were not there but know better than those that were? There you have it. As to the tea party-ers displaying signs and distorting facts, you are doing a pretty good job of that yourself for someone who did not attend the rally. God Bless America

aticama 2009-08-30T00:58:55Z advocate 2009-08-30T00:03:13Z 2009-08-30T00:03:13Z

tpierce 2 and aticama: Quote from the article: "Meckler leading the crowd in chants of "Government is the problem," and "No more government." I wrote with no anger. Why did you interpret it that. way? There sure was anger in the crowd and signs. You write as if you are angry about "big" government." What is that? How big is "big?" And as to truth, I wrote what I read. Tell THEM about truth--unless all the reporters are wrong and the signs that they carried didn't mean what was written, the tea party folks all around the country displayed a bunch of distorted and inflammatory messages, many of which were false. .

advocate 2009-08-30T00:03:13Z AyatollahGondola 2009-08-29T23:44:15Z 2009-08-29T23:44:15Z

So if you plan to, want to, or like to live on fish, the duh hat goes on which head? The people behind getting more water are the same ones who've been diverting it to build more communities. Give 'em more water and you'll just get a bigger shortage down the road. Farming is fine; being dependent upon farmers is no more satisfying than being dependent on foreign fisherman. So there's a drought now. We cope with it. We don't kill the fish permanently to solve the farmers temporary problem. And the TEA Parties were not originally instituted to solve farmers problems. The peculiar thing is that this one happened to have been geared towards them. Forgive me for wanting to stick to the main agenda, and not allow a hijacking.

AyatollahGondola 2009-08-29T23:44:15Z aticama 2009-08-29T23:03:15Z 2009-08-29T23:03:15Z

People who own small farms, and people that work on them are not "basic Americans"? What made California the fifth largest economy in the world was it's farm industry, not the movie industry in Hollywood. Now they are killing that. What people should be asking is why are they cutting off the water in our most productive valley? Will you dummy up when the big farm co-ops have taken over the valley and run the little guy off his land? Do you think they will worry about the fish them? Put on your "DUH" hat, please.

aticama 2009-08-29T23:03:15Z tpierce2 2009-08-29T22:06:10Z 2009-08-29T22:06:10Z

One of the speakers made the point that we can't change government alone. The Tea Party alone and those of us that support the concept behind the Tea Party can't change government. The point the speaker made was that a large coalition can help change government and throw the bums out. I did not see big business hijacking the tea party. I saw a coalition of farmers, ranchers, loggers, Tea Party types coming together to try and correct what the liberals have done and are doing to this country. I saw like thinking citizens coming together and I applaud it. It is about time.

tpierce2 2009-08-29T22:06:10Z tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:55:58Z 2009-08-29T21:55:58Z

Like you, I am glad they brought up the water issue. I've been following it and people and communities are being devastated in the Central Valley. Farmers are losing their crops, trees are dying and thousands are un-employed. I feel sorry for these people and communities. They are U.S. Citizens and they are being treated like dirt! A small dinky fish is the excuse the environmentalists use. I am also glad CARB was brought up. The organization seems to be totally corrupt. The regulations they issues are putting farmers, loggers, truckers and associated industries out of business. They are helping bankrupt the state. Again, extreme environmentalism at work---to the detriment of humans. They should be disbanded. Eliminate the agency. Great day! It was a nice, passionate group of people standing up for Freedom.

tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:55:58Z AyatollahGondola 2009-08-29T21:55:14Z 2009-08-29T21:55:14Z

The point I was making was that this was sponsored as much by water interests as it was your basic American. The signs were everywhere.

AyatollahGondola 2009-08-29T21:55:14Z tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:47:18Z 2009-08-29T21:47:18Z

You must have been at the same rally as I was. Great rally! I loved the entire event.

tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:47:18Z tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:45:37Z 2009-08-29T21:45:37Z

I did not hear them say "no more government". If they did I would interpret it to mean "no more corrupt government" or "no additional government." Government can't be totally eliminated. We just need less of it. Far less and far less intrusive. At this point in our history government at all levels is completely out of control. McClintock and Meckler are the good guys. I would suggest focusing your anger on the ones trying to bury this country and take away our FREEDOM. They are the truly evil ones.

tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:45:37Z tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:37:38Z 2009-08-29T21:37:38Z

Jim Knapp, your analysis of the TEA Party is way off. First off, how do you know they were illegal aliens. Did you talk to them? Did you ask the Latinos if they were illegal? I doubt it. More than likely they were hard working people and business owners. People fed up with government in general. I was there for almost the entire event. I saw Americans exercising Democracy. Truckers, farmers, ranchers, Vets, old and young. It was a grand event in the tradition of Americans standing up for freedom. A couple of comments by other people seem to want to try to tie this to the Republican Party. It just so happens that the ideals of many Republicans are closer to the hearts and minds of the people than the lack of ideals as demonstrated by the left loony wing of the Democrat party. I don't care who sponsors these events as long as they reflect America and the Constitution---as written. Not as Obama, Pelosi, Reid and the other cast of villains would define it. Who is against Freedom? Who is against lower taxes? Who is trying to bankrupt this country? Who is for regulations that kill jobs and business's? Who has turned this once great state into a bankrupt state and made it the laughing stock of the country? Liberals and liberalism! That's who! People that love this country and believe in the Constitution did not create this mess. It's the loony left liberal that has created this mess. I enjoyed the Tea Party and believe in every issue brought up. And I support every issue. And I don't give a damn who puts these events together as long as they remain true to the original TEA Party goals. Protect your freedom or we will lose our Freedom!

tpierce2 2009-08-29T21:37:38Z aticama 2009-08-29T21:25:39Z 2009-08-29T21:25:39Z

Sorry, again this person was not at the same rally as I. What was said was no more big goverment. There is a difference. Please try to be truthful.

aticama 2009-08-29T21:25:39Z advocate 2009-08-29T20:16:25Z 2009-08-29T20:16:25Z

"no more government" per Meckler and McClintock? Herger said at his town hall "don't trust government." I'd agree with having "no more" of THEM and "don't trust " THEM since they are part of the government that they are railing against. The alternative to government is anarchy and revolution and they know it! So those irresponsible anti-American clowns mislead the public in order to stir up emotion. They'd better be careful. They might get what they wish for, and they won't like it.. The original tea part was a protest against "taxation without representation" these tea party people want "representation"--THEIR kind of representation ONLY but "without taxation." They are so informed that they don't even know the government benefits of freedom, law and order among hundreds of other benefits hat they and their children enjoy in our free society. Just wait until they see what happens without any government.

advocate 2009-08-29T20:16:25Z Marion Millin 2009-08-29T20:08:24Z 2009-08-29T20:08:24Z

Try going back and reading your post. "It now appears that the GOP has taken COMPLETE control of the national Tea Party movement through GOP based PAC's, but being careful not to be linked as any "official" GOP organizing effort. "The Tea Party Express, which sponsored today’s event is organized and controlled by "Our Country Deserves Better PAC”. This is a Republican PAC with heavy hitter GOP strategists." "Despite what those on the Left would have you believe, not all conservatives want to poison the Delta, kill off fish or pollute our air. " Yep, as you say, you swing your broadbrush both ways, demonizing "those on the Left" for the messages and street theatre backed by "a Republican PAC with heavy hitter GOP strategists" you identified. They were the ones sending the anti-environmental message, not "those on the Left."

Marion Millin 2009-08-29T20:08:24Z Oracle 2009-08-29T19:51:44Z 2009-08-29T19:51:44Z

Actually, the California Highway Patrol (they run the Capitol security) estimated between 1,500 and 4,000 people. Maybe those were high and low totals throughout the day. Any way you cut it, there were a lot of people on a hot, work day which says a lot more. These were regular folks too, not organized SEIU drones with their $20 custom hand signs and purple T-shirts.

Oracle 2009-08-29T19:51:44Z aticama 2009-08-29T18:51:52Z 2009-08-29T18:51:52Z

Well, most of you went to a different rally then I did. I did not hear any hate speech or mean spirited-ness in the crowds, or from the podium. Many speakers stated that they did not care who the bad actor politicians were, or their affiliation, if they lied to the people they had to go. As to the estimates of people attending, had to be over 4 grand. But what impressed me most was that the total overall attendants was far greater than that. There was a constant going of people who had been there for a bit as well as new arrivals all the time. But as the day went on the overall gathering continued to grow. The 1500 figure is typical disinformation, and to be quite frank with you, laughable. I expected no less from the liberal press. This movement is growing and will continue to grow. As to big business, I really did not see that either. I did see a lot of small business people there, and small business has always suffered the most under the regulatory thumb of our government. It is part of the plan. The water thing. I am glad they brought it up, as I was unaware of it. It has made me what to do some research as to how this all came about and how it is tied into the big farming co-ops taking over the Sinaloa Valley in Mexico after NAFTA went into effect. I am sure that you astute people out there understand how they did that. Perhaps this is a repeat here in the states to divest the small family farmers of their land so big agro farmers can buy it up cheep. Naw, Americans would not do that to other Americans, they might do it to Mexicans, but not their own people, right? I was curious about the Mexicans that were there also, and being as I speak fluent Spanish went among them and talked to them. The greater majority of them were native born American farm workers who had come from families that had been in the valley for generations. But this is the typed of hysteria that has gripped this country. They were Mexican, they were farm workers, so the small minded assume they are illegal’s. All in all it was a great day and I felt comfortable surrounded by so many decent Fellow Americans. The grass was nice and cool, the trees were spectacular, the speeches were inspiring, and the music was exciting. I am sorry that some of you had such an unsatisfactory experience, but perhaps that was part of the plan. All in all it kind of reminded me of something Hilary once said. “We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." God Bless America.

aticama 2009-08-29T18:51:52Z czfuller 2009-08-29T18:36:27Z 2009-08-29T18:36:27Z

One last point, your "The Cherry on Top" flies in the face of your argument that this was a GOP right wing rally , The precence of someone you disagree with demonstrates this was in fact a cross section of of all persuations right left it doesnt matter ...those that participated as far as I am concerned including you were FREEDOM loving Americans. Did you see the American Independant Party in attendance, how about the Pot legalizers, What about the sales guy from Riverside and the retired Telecommunications guy(Veitnam Vet) Did you talk to your fellow Americans or did you just look around and make assumptions in the hour you spent in judgement....So for me the silence you heard when the Spanish was spoken was a demonstration of acceptance of all you came with a VOICE to exercise the American Freedom of SPEECH...again GOD BLESS YOU!!! CZ Fuller Sales guy from Riverside California & A "Tea Party Patriot"

czfuller 2009-08-29T18:36:27Z czfuller 2009-08-29T18:08:03Z 2009-08-29T18:08:03Z

I was there too, I stayed for the whole thing...and how do you know the farm worker that were present were Illegal ???? and farm workers, truckers Veterans and regular old Joe and Jane are what I saw, how you could calculate 85-90% were of a certain group would take a survey...and you leaving after an hour or so indicates to me you had not done an accurate survey nor could it have been scientific. I do not challenge your credentials as to your political views however I do challenge you assertions as to what This TEA party was about and who attended...Maybe had you stayed and listened to the speakers you would have had a different perspective. All Government was placed on notice...We the People who showed up have had ENOUGH and that was the message of the day...as well as a call to action to inform ALL Elected and unelected officials of the government that we are their employers and They serve at our pleasure. So what ever your reason for attending an hour of this event the message to you is inform your Representatives of your concerns, recruit like minded citizens agitate, agitate, agitate and cast you ballots in 010 & 012 to reflect the Government you desire...let FREEDOM RING brother!!!!!!!!! God Bless you CZ Fuller Riverside Ca.

czfuller 2009-08-29T18:08:03Z Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T16:46:42Z 2009-08-29T16:46:42Z

More people went to an auction in Sacramento on Friday than attended the Farmers Rally which was publicized state wide for months. http://www.sacbee.com/topstories/story/2146933.html

Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T16:46:42Z Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T15:36:53Z 2009-08-29T15:36:53Z

I have not found police estimates anywhere..what source do you cite? A cop walking around? or official CHP estimates? I have read in the press 2-6K, your estimate is by far the lowest and clearly inaccurate.

Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T15:36:53Z Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T15:34:41Z 2009-08-29T15:34:41Z

Lol Public Radio..thats funny...you obviously don't know me...try going back and reading my past posts on this site before you make ill informed statements... I am about as conservative as you can get... But I call a them as I see them. Both political parties lie and mislead Americans. I will call out either party when I see this. And yes the language I heard at this event was divisive and mean spirited. This is not supposed to be the intent of the Tea Party movement. MARION, I don't get your point....you put words together I don't think I said...

Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T15:34:41Z AyatollahGondola 2009-08-29T14:52:33Z 2009-08-29T14:52:33Z

Gadfly is right on with most of his commentary, I'm pretty right wing as seen by observers, but I am still able to notice when I'm being used by what appear to be my own betheren. I saw this coming and sent out a mass email asking if the TEA parties were being hijacked by big business. After attending the protest I think my fears were confirmed. It was all about water and farming. The truckers were a bright spot really. If anyone has a legitimate beef with regulatory government it's them. The Farmers....not so much. And about the latino water rights coalition and the farmers using them to try and introduce the far right wingers to immigration reform.....total fraud. I'm not going to call them illegal's as Gadfly did because I don't know that at all, but you cannot ignore that someone thought it best to mix two demographics that have wildly opposing views on another major issue with this one so they can use it to point to when they want to say "see? everyone wants more immigration or workers for farms". The bright spot for me was that real people still came. I saw them standing on the sidewalks holding signs and getting involved trying to show passer's by that they care. they weren't all caught up in the frenzy all things Republican. I saw them as I drove around and around towing the mobile billboard and they saw me. We may have a hijacking of our movement going on, but that don't mean it will end up a success.

AyatollahGondola 2009-08-29T14:52:33Z 1207 2009-08-29T13:48:37Z 2009-08-29T13:48:37Z

Gadfly, anyone who uses "divisive and mean spirted" and then throws in "a diatribe against Democrats" tells a lot about themselves. You watch to much TV or listen to to much public radio, get a life and probably a job.

1207 2009-08-29T13:48:37Z Raoul Kleven 2009-08-29T10:52:58Z 2009-08-29T10:52:58Z

The 1500 number came from Police estimates. This protest did seem smaller than the first, but it's always possible mistakes were made.

Raoul Kleven 2009-08-29T10:52:58Z Marion Millin 2009-08-29T10:43:06Z 2009-08-29T10:43:06Z

"Despite what the Liberals would have you believe, not all conservatives want to poison the Delta, kill off fish or pollute our air." You just said that it's "high ranking GOP strategists" who "would have you believe that."

Marion Millin 2009-08-29T10:43:06Z Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T05:46:48Z 2009-08-29T05:46:48Z

OK first off your numbers are WAY off.... Why fudge the numbers... there is no need to. I was there, there was 3-5K. Some articles claim 6K...I don't buy that figure either. The rest of the article is mostly accurate. What was supposed to be a Tea Party event, for those of all political persuasions who are fed up with our inept government and wasteful spending habits, turned into a far right wing extremist rally controlled by corporate farming interests. The absolute cherry on top of this steaming pile of a rally was that the farmers trucked in a bunch of illegal immigrants to hold picket signs! Now let me make one thing clear... Tea Party folks don't take to kindly to illegal aliens...but for some reason, no one seemed to care...that made me very suspicious...then I walked through the crowd and realized that 85-90% were farm supporters, and NOT “Tea Party Patriots.” It appears that the Tea Party organizers, worried about a poor showing, invited the farmers to jump in on the rally....what a HUGE mistake. I am a rabid supporter of the idea of the Tea Parties... I lasted about an hour before I left. This rally was NOTHING like the Tax Day Tea Party on April 15th. It was a different crowd with a totally different message. Today was a divisive and mean spirited attack on anyone who cared about the environment, water or air quality; it was a diatribe against Democrats and those on the Left organized by high ranking GOP strategists trying very hard to masquerade as an independent non-partisan Tea Party. Well…they failed. This was not the intent of the original early 2009 Tea Party movement, which was a non partisan movement against both political parties that have failed our country. It now appears that the GOP has taken COMPLETE control of the national Tea Party movement through GOP based PAC's, but being careful not to be linked as any "official" GOP organizing effort. The Tea Party Express, which sponsored today’s event is organized and controlled by "Our Country Deserves Better PAC”. This is a Republican PAC with heavy hitter GOP strategists. Check out who is on their team yourself. See: www.ourcountrydeservesbetter.com Sadly the Tea Party movement will fail, it is disorganized and well meaning supporters are being used and lied to. The irony is that most joined along with this movement because they were sick and tired of being lied to by our politicians, but they have been duped, and now this same organization, is lying and misleading them. It never seems to end…Americans just can’t get an honest answer from anyone. Despite what those on the Left would have you believe, not all conservatives want to poison the Delta, kill off fish or pollute our air. Americans need to stop picking sides on issues straight down party lines. We can be fiscally conservative and responsible, and at the same time protect our environment. But this protection of the environment must also be tempered and balanced. We must have farming, they must have water, but we also need to protect the Delta fisheries and ecosystem. We are an intelligent nation we can come up with a solution to this.

Jim Knapp 2009-08-29T05:46:48Z